Undocumented immigrant accused of shooting a gun says he has same Second Amendment rights as U.S. ci

Grimscale

Grimscale

.338 Win Mag
Messages
8,257
Reaction score
16,190
Location
Rochester
Question:
Is entering the U.S. illegally a felony or a misdemeanor?

If it is a felony, then he clearly does NOT have the Right to own a gun.
Constitutional questions need not apply.

However, part of me would like to see him win as, depending on what kind of gun he was caught with, it might actually help to knock down The Tyrant's unConstitutional Law, as well as the handgun licensing and registration laws.

Such a dilemma!
 
Marine Cpl

Marine Cpl

.577 Tyrannosaur.
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
20,632
Location
Orange County
He does. Whether you are an illegal alien, a legal citizen of another country on vacation, or a citizen of this country, you are afforded the protections of the US Constitution.

For example. A Catholic from Italy on vacation or on a student visa cannot be told that he cannot practice his religion here. That same guy from Italy cannot be told that he cannot do an interview with a news organization. If he rents a house for vacation or while on a visa, he cannot have US Soldiers forcibly quartered in his home.

Why is it different for guns and the 2A? It doesn't matter who you are. A citizen, a resident, a person on a visa, or an illegal alien has the same protections from the government. The US Constitution says what the government cannot do. It doesn't say who has rights.
 
Marine Cpl

Marine Cpl

.577 Tyrannosaur.
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
20,632
Location
Orange County
Grimscale said:
Question:
Is entering the U.S. illegally a felony or a misdemeanor?

If it is a felony, then he clearly does NOT have the Right to own a gun.
Constitutional questions need not apply.

However, part of me would like to see him win as, depending on what kind of gun he was caught with, it might actually help to knock down The Tyrant's unConstitutional Law, as well as the handgun licensing and registration laws.

Such a dilemma!
Click to expand...
That felony nonsense is a bastardization and wasn't what the founders intended. The 2A doesn't say that felons are exempt from protections.

Are felons not allowed to practice their religion or speak against the government in an interview? Are they not allowed a speedy trial?
 
BDinPutnam

BDinPutnam

.475 A&M Magnum
Messages
14,490
Reaction score
20,854
Location
Someplace else
Brooklyn.

Right or wrong I'm not sure how this even gets to be 2A question as there's got to be no way in hell this guy has an NYC pistol permit nor did he aquire the firearm legally.
 
@thewheels

@thewheels

.308 Win
Messages
3,050
Reaction score
4,087
Location
Taxland
Willjr75 said:
That felony nonsense is a bastardization and wasn't what the founders intended. The 2A doesn't say that felons are exempt from protections.

Are felons not allowed to practice their religion or speak against the government in an interview? Are they not allowed a speedy trial?
Click to expand...

No voting? The application of the law shows how screwed things are.
 
SomeSoldier

SomeSoldier

.450/400 Nitro Ex
U.S. Military
Messages
10,452
Reaction score
20,204
Location
Florida
Grimscale said:
Question:
Is entering the U.S. illegally a felony or a misdemeanor?

If it is a felony, then he clearly does NOT have the Right to own a gun.
Constitutional questions need not apply.

However, part of me would like to see him win as, depending on what kind of gun he was caught with, it might actually help to knock down The Tyrant's unConstitutional Law, as well as the handgun licensing and registration laws.

Such a dilemma!
Click to expand...

You have to be convicted before that rule applies.
 
SomeSoldier

SomeSoldier

.450/400 Nitro Ex
U.S. Military
Messages
10,452
Reaction score
20,204
Location
Florida
oc shooter said:
interesting conversation shows how convoluted things are in this country way too many gray areas for me
Click to expand...

In my opinion most everything can be seen in black or white, right or wrong. Its when people want to justify their bad behavior we start getting into this gray area.
 
M_F

M_F

.45 acp
Messages
271
Reaction score
281
Location
Long Island
There was already a similar case (I believe from the 7th circuit) regarding the 2A and illegal aliens. The court basically said that they do have a right to exercise their 2A rights, BUT they can still be charged, convicted and then deported for being an illegal alien in the possession of a firearm, a violation of the 1968 GCA.
 
@thewheels

@thewheels

.308 Win
Messages
3,050
Reaction score
4,087
Location
Taxland
MFC_9 said:
There was already a similar case (I believe from the 7th circuit) regarding the 2A and illegal aliens. The court basically said that they do have a right to exercise their 2A rights, BUT they can still be charged, convicted and then deported for being an illegal alien in the possession of a firearm, a violation of the 1968 GCA.
Click to expand...

We ALL know the GCA is a shining example of a constitutional law.
 
BDinPutnam

BDinPutnam

.475 A&M Magnum
Messages
14,490
Reaction score
20,854
Location
Someplace else
MFC_9 said:
While that was their justification to convict and then deport the defendant, just pointing a gun at random people in a bar could have been enough.
Click to expand...

Like I said, this was in Brooklyn and I will eat my own permit if this guy has a NYC pistol permit. Lack of a permit alone should convict this guy (even if, obviously, I despise the Sullivan Act).
 
BDinPutnam

BDinPutnam

.475 A&M Magnum
Messages
14,490
Reaction score
20,854
Location
Someplace else
dwa12479 said:
The US Constitution does not grant you natural born rights, it prevents the US government from infringing on those rights. Citizenship status is irrelevant, the BOR extends to all on US soil.
Click to expand...

Clarifies my point well, I think.

He *does* have the same natural rights as any other New Yorker, in principle.

In practice, more like none. :mad:
 
Target

Target

6.5 Creedmoor
Messages
2,044
Reaction score
3,328
Location
Central NY
The 2A does not allow ME to do what he did.
Regardless of the 2A angle, is he not in violation of many laws: illegal possession, menacing, discharging a firearm in city limits, endangering a minor ( the bullet has to come down somewhere) , some storage regulations, ....

The articles does not say if he was a 'banger or just "doing the jobs that Americans won't" . He very well may have been defending his family / residence/neighborhood from thugs.

What is his lawyer trying to prove by saying that the 2A applies to this illegal ? He is still in violation of NY and Fed gun laws.
 
STS556

STS556

.223 Rem
Messages
1,195
Reaction score
1,776
Location
Westchester
BDinPutnam said:
Brooklyn.

Right or wrong I'm not sure how this even gets to be 2A question as there's got to be no way in hell this guy has an NYC pistol permit nor did he aquire the firearm legally.
Click to expand...

Not only that, but as the law states you can't discharge a firearm within 500 feet of a dwelling. I doubt there in any open space in Brooklyn without a dwelling within 50 feet of one another let alone 500 feet.
 
Jmac00

Jmac00

.475 A&M Magnum
Messages
18,840
Reaction score
51,786
Location
somewhere in America
Willjr75 said:
He does. Whether you are an illegal alien, a legal citizen of another country on vacation, or a citizen of this country, you are afforded the protections of the US Constitution.

For example. A Catholic from Italy on vacation or on a student visa cannot be told that he cannot practice his religion here. That same guy from Italy cannot be told that he cannot do an interview with a news organization. If he rents a house for vacation or while on a visa, he cannot have US Soldiers forcibly quartered in his home.

Why is it different for guns and the 2A? It doesn't matter who you are. A citizen, a resident, a person on a visa, or an illegal alien has the same protections from the government. The US Constitution says what the government cannot do. It doesn't say who has rights.
Click to expand...

then why doesn't our 2A rights extend to other countries? If anyone can come to America and acquire a firearm, then why can't why can't we go to England and have the 2A protect us?
 
Marine Cpl

Marine Cpl

.577 Tyrannosaur.
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
20,632
Location
Orange County
Jmac00 said:
then why doesn't our 2A rights extend to other countries? If anyone can come to America and acquire a firearm, then why can't why can't we go to England and have the 2A protect us?
Click to expand...
Because other countries don't have the Bill of Rights. They only apply to this country.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top