so lets talk about riots, and tactics

[Jmac00]

For the last week we saw an unprecedented violent riots in our country. Last Saturday night, these violent people came uncomfortably close to my neighborhood.

what would you do, how should you respond to being caught in a riot. How would you work your way OUT of that situation.

How would you respond should 1000 protesters come down your street.

Is standing on your porch, all geared up with your hand gun and shotgun a good idea? or are you setting yourself up as a target

 

[tc556guy]

Being an FFL, the burglaries/ looting of FFLs in some states is of particular concern to me.

I don't think that standing on your porch as a solitary figure is a good idea.

A 1000 people would be a numerical stretch in my little village, as that's more than the entire population here.

Having a communal presence at the entrance of a cul-de-sac neighborhood as we've seen in past riots or disasters would be the way to go.

I've decided to break a 12 gauge out of my safe as my primary long gun this week.
Still wearing a Glock around the property, but for bumps in the night the shotgun and a bandolier of shells is my first pick.

 

[Defilade]

I've got a MK 19 on order.

 

[Jmac00]

Being an FFL, the burglaries/ looting of FFLs in some states is of particular concern to me.

I don't think that standing on your porch as a solitary figure is a good idea.

A 1000 people would be a numerical stretch in my little village, as that'[s more than the entire population here.

Having a communal presence at the entrance of a cul-de-sac neighborhood as we've seen in past riots or disasters would be the way to go.

I've decided to break a 12 gauge out of my safe as my primary long gun this week.
Still wearing a Glock around the property, but for bumps in the night the shotgun and a bandolier of shells is my first pick.

Ya, Im not sure what I would do if the bad guys were coming down the street, I guess just stand in the living room with a couple shotguns and hope they go to someone elses house

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I have thought about this some. Seems you have a few options. Not sure which is best.
You could:
A: bug out- gets you out of harms way. the main con being that you are leaving your house and belongings to the mercy of the rioters.

B: Arm yourself but keep a low profile and lock yourself inside and wait it out. Be viligant and make sure they aren't setting your house on fire and if they break in, defend yourself as best you can. Con being if attacked, you could still be overrun.

C: Arm yourself and make a show of it. This could either deter or invite violence. Obviously the more people you have with you who are also armed, the better. A con would be that you could still be overrun by numbers.

 

[Jmac00]

I was also thinking of arming a few neighbors and walking down to the end of the street to prevent anyone from even coming our way. Not sure that would work, as you would have to be determined that you might have to shoot someone. something I would be trying to avoid, but if push-came-to-shove....

 

[JackNeat]

Interesting conversation to have and probably a necessary one as everyday seems to sink us deeper into chaos. I'll be following. The idea of being forced into this choice is compounded by the fact we live in a state where the Gov sides with the protesters and the gun laws are not in the gun owner favor.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I was also thinking of arming a few neighbors and walking down to the end of the street to prevent anyone from even coming our way. Not sure that would work, as you would have to be determined that you might have to shoot someone. something I would be trying to avoid, but if push-came-to-shove....

What are the legalities of walking with a loaded and exposed gun down the street and off your property?

 

[tc556guy]

I was also thinking of arming a few neighbors and walking down to the end of the street to prevent anyone from even coming our way. Not sure that would work, as you would have to be determined that you might have to shoot someone. something I would be trying to avoid, but if push-came-to-shove....

One real concern is that NYS law in general is not self-defense friendly when it comes to defending ones-self against mobs, in my personal opinion.
As far as my personal views are concerned, I think that people who loot and riot should be shot, but few states seem to be willing to take their response to that level.
It might be "just property" and someone might have property insured...although losses from riots are often NOT covered by insurance...but property owners should not be expected to tolerate the loss of their property, their livelihood and possibly their lives, to the mob.
If nothing else, each of us should be cracking open article 35 to refresh ourselves on what levels of force are allowed in what circumstances.

 

[Criticalt]

From the dozens of videos ive watched of guys and gals standing in front of their businesses with guns out, id say this tactic is sound. The rioters have left these businesses alone.
These rioters are NOT looking to die. They are looking to raise hell and get some free stuff. If they think they can safely overtake you, they will try. Even if there are a thousand of them it would be very difficult for them to choose the 4 that will give their lives to get to you. There are plenty of other things to burn and steal.

 

[JackNeat]

From the dozens of videos ive watched of guys and gals standing in front of their businesses with guns out, id say this tactic is sound. The rioters have left these businesses alone.
These rioters are NOT looking to die. They are looking to raise hell and get some free stuff. If they think they can safely overtake you, they will try. Even if there are a thousand of them it would be very difficult for them to choose the 4 that will give their lives to get to you. There are plenty of other things to burn and steal.

I watched a video posted by one of the gun right advocacy sites where 3 men with guns did exactly this to protect their deli. It did work but it looked pretty tense as the protesters seemed to DARE them to shoot as at least 2 or 3 of them kept moving closer with their arms raised above their heads... it's just fucked up. Total lawlessness seems to be the current climate.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Is your life and the life of your family worth giving up over a house most people don't actually own and have insurance on?

If I thought rioting was going to be near my house, I would be packing whatever I though I couldnt replace then; guns, ammo, money. That would all be ready in the vehicle to drive off in. If they were at the end of my street I would be driving away.

Here is another thing to think about. With riots happening more often, I willing to bet that there will be an extra insurance people will have to purchase soon. Kinda like flood.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I watched a video posted by one of the gun right advocacy sites where 3 men with guns did exactly this to protect their deli. It did work but it looked pretty tense as the protesters seemed to DARE them to shoot as at least 2 or 3 of them kept moving closer with their arms raised above their heads... it's just fucked up. Total lawlessness seems to be the current climate.

That's what the pressure washer is for.

 

[JackNeat]

That's what the pressure washer is for.

filled with bleach.

 

[Jmac00]

Now that I think about it, a couple very large dogs would be a good deterrent too

my unbelievably friendly black lab bird dog probably won't cut it

 

[Criticalt]

One real concern is that NYS law in general is not self-defense friendly when it comes to defending ones-self against mobs, in my personal opinion.
As far as my personal views are concerned, I think that people who loot and riot should be shot, but few states seem to be willing to take their response to that level.
It might be "just property" and someone might have property insured...although losses from riots are often NOT covered by insurance...but property owners should not be expected to tolerate the loss of their property, their livelihood and possibly their lives, to the mob.
If nothing else, each of us should be cracking open article 35 to refresh ourselves on what levels of force are allowed in what circumstances.

Even in NYS you are allowed to protect your personal dwelling from being burned down or being robbed.
If you need to go to court over protecting you dwelling with deadly force, there is plenty of proof of what the rioters can do to you if they get in.
Have you seen the video of the couple being beaten with 2x4s while trying to defend their store? Im not even sure the lady will ever be the same. Two guys beat her dozens of times with 8 foot 2x4s. Or the elderly couple beaten so bad they may not live? Or one of the other 10 dozen violent attacks over the last few days. Or the federal officer being shot and killed trying to defend his place of work?
There is plenty of proof out there that these animals have no problem with extreme violence and even murder.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Now that I think about it, a couple very large dogs would be a good deterrent too

my unbelievably friendly black lab bird dog probably won't cut it

Or a looped recording of a big dog barking that you could blast out your stereo.

 

[tc556guy]

Even in NYS you are allowed to protect your personal dwelling from being burned down or being robbed.
If you need to go to court over protecting you dwelling with deadly force, there is plenty of proof of what the rioters can do to you if they get in.
Have you seen the video of the couple being beaten with 2x4s while trying to defend their store? Im not even sure the lady will ever be the same. Two guys beat her dozens of times with 8 foot 2x4s. Or the elderly couple beaten so bad they may not live? Or one of the other 10 dozen violent attacks over the last few days. Or the federal officer being shot and killed trying to defend his place of work?
There is plenty of proof out there that these animals have no problem with extreme violence and even murder.

I wasn't referring to defending yourself or your property against immediate attack by arsonists, but about being more proactive in terms of setting up neighborhood defenses, etc
I saw the video of the Rochester incident. As I commented aver at AR15.com in the HTF thread on the incident, if the stores owners were liberals before the attack, they probably aren't now.
I'm well aware of the level of violence the rioters are capable of. We also seem to have Governors, Mayors and other politicians who want to condemn acts of self defense in responses that ultimately embolden the rioters.

 

[speedkills27]

-Communicate and make a plan with ALL members of your household
-pre-prep self defense tools if you haven't already
-pre-prep bug out supplies and irreplaceable items. Have car/truck backed into driveway full of fuel. Plan a bug out route and meeting place
-Take defensive posture by locking everything tight, turning outside flood lights on so there are as few dark spots as possible
-Maintain situational awareness by monitoring police scanners, social media, and local news media to keep tabs on the bulk of the mob.
- be prepared physically and mentally to execute your plan AND to be able to make adjustments on the fly

 

[Criticalt]

Now that I think about it, a couple very large dogs would be a good deterrent too

my unbelievably friendly black lab bird dog probably won't cut it

Ive got 300 plus pounds of well trained Mastiff and 300 plus pounds of well trained pitbulls, but they would not be a match for a dozen guys with weapons like sticks or pipes.
One or two guys with pipes would be in trouble.
Its a numbers thing.
Guns even out those numbers far better than dogs.
However, your average home burglar is very afraid of dogs.

 

[Blimey]

Stay inside, not on your porch. Being surrounded is how people get screwed by crowds. Not sure of legality of shooting people for throwing bricks through your windows in this scenario, so probably safe not to respond, but at that point I would make it known that I'm armed and still inside behind walls. Key is to not be surrounded. If your door is kicked in you can mag dump. Also if anybody was about to throw a molotov cocktail at the house they are a justified target.

Defending your vehicle in driveway is more dubious. You can't shoot somebody for stealing, but you can go and ask them to stop and if they then attack you you're justified to shoot (case a few years ago in Rochester that's what happen and guy was acquitted when a person ransacking cars came at him on his own property).

 

[Criticalt]

I wasn't referring to defending yourself or your property against immediate attack by arsonists, but about being more proactive in terms of setting up neighborhood defenses, etc
I saw the video of the Rochester incident. As I commented aver at AR15.com in the HTF thread on the incident, if the stores owners were liberals before the attack, they probably aren't now.
I'm well aware of the level of violence the rioters are capable of. We also seem to have Governors, Mayors and other politicians who want to condemn acts of self defense in responses that ultimately embolden the rioters.

Agreed
Its a good thing that governors, mayors and other politicians arent on juries.

 

[MothMan]

Agreed
Its a good thing that governors, mayors and other politicians arent on juries.

They prefer the role of executioner.

 

[Deplorable Me]

9

filled with bleach.

93 Octane (don't try this at home).

 

[Blimey]

I'm well aware of the level of violence the rioters are capable of.

A lot of people aren't. They weren't (man and woman beaten in Rochester). To approach looters like that and try and reason with them was only possible if one has a naive view of the world and the violence some are capable of. There are monsters among us. People who are barely people, who do not care about you or anybody else and have no ability to empathize. As a young man to beat an old woman with a piece of wood who cannot even offer you anything in terms of reward (i.e. you're not robbing her)--just for the burst of power against a victim, and to feel awash with rage and let it out like a beast. That person is not like most people, nor like most beasts in truth.

 

[ApexerER]

You take out a couple knees and I bet they would back right off. I'll take an assault charge protecting my family and property......

 

[tc556guy]

You take out a couple knees and I bet they would back right off. I'll take an assault charge protecting my family and property......

Well, Joe Biden DID just get done saying that good guys should be shooting at bad guys' legs and not their center of mass.....

 

[spat]

1000 of them ? That's a real SHTF scenario. Time to forget about what's legal and just do what'll keep you alive.

Station some tannerite and gas cans on the lawn.

Have a mag full of tracers to light with.

When the first wave turns into human tiki torches in a scene from apocalypse now, they will decide another house might be a better target.

Failing that, you *do* know how to make and employ some IEDs right ? homemade claymores can reduce a crowd size pretty quickly.

Do *not* allow them to approach within "throwing distance"

I guess it depends on how much warning you have what you can do, but I bet I could fortify the place pretty well given half a day warning. Just hope they haven't hijacked an MRAP.

If you're not expecting something from a Hollywood blockbuster, just identify the lead instigators and drop them first. The rest will pick another target.

 

[@thewheels]

Is your life and the life of your family worth giving up over a house most people don't actually own and have insurance on?

If I thought rioting was going to be near my house, I would be packing whatever I though I couldnt replace then; guns, ammo, money. That would all be ready in the vehicle to drive off in. If they were at the end of my street I would be driving away.

Here is another thing to think about. With riots happening more often, I willing to bet that there will be an extra insurance people will have to purchase soon. Kinda like flood.

There's a whole lot of insurance policies that don't cover looting or rioting and I'd bet that most companies don't offer riders.
Depending on what my mortgage is down to, I'm probably switching to Alamo mode. Even more so in a state without our property tax racket.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Are there multiple people in your house that can field a firearm in a safe manner? Are there neighbors with skill, experience and proficiency with firearms?


Only if backed into a corner:
Can you create a psychological advantage that makes you seem like a bigger threat? (Crazy beats big theory.)

 

[Calculon]

Low profile is likely the best option. Arming the neighbors is a risky proposition IMO if 1) you don’t know them well enough to predict how they may react, 2) they’re not willing to follow your lead, and 3) what their firearms experience is. Don’t know what your liability is if neighbor shoots someone with your firearm.

If rioters openly attacking/burning I imagine all bets are off.