Federal student loan repayments to restart

spat

spat

.700 Nitro Express
Messages
29,547
Reaction score
62,192
Location
Formerly Geneseo, NY. Now free in AZ
Saltwater60 said:
There needs to be controls put in both sides of the coin. No loans for pointless degrees but in the flip side of someone can’t help you financially there is no way you can afford college these days.
Myron goes to UB and his schedule is all over the place he can not work during the semester outside of Saturday and Sunday but he has struggled to find anyone will to hire him for less than 4 days per week. Another kids I know are complaining about the same.
Click to expand...
The solution to run away costs is *not* to pass them on to the taxpayers.

That's like throwing gasoline on a fire.

You need to ask yourself *why* the cost of a college degree has risen at 4x the rate of inflation for the last 50 years.

In the 1970s a degree was affordable for most people *without* government assistance.

Then the feds decided to "help" with student loans, and academia just saw $$$ and costs skyrocketed.

There is absolutely no reason at all that a math or history degree costs anywhere near what it does, or any more than it did in 1960 (inflation adjusted).

Fix the root problem. "Taxpayer funded" is a recipe for disaster for *anything* that is "too expensive".
 
SomeSoldier

SomeSoldier

.450/400 Nitro Ex
U.S. Military
Messages
10,440
Reaction score
20,175
Location
Florida
OwnTheRide said:
Highly disagree with the notion that college degrees are a waste, but there are plenty of people who waste their time in college, and/or choose degrees with very limited employment potential. A STEM degree will give a person a big leg up. While I will agree that a person who knows what they are doing (ex: coding) can get by without a degree, they will have a much harder time getting their foot in the door and will constantly be playing catch-up, salary-wise, when they do.

A colleague of mine has no degree, but he can code circles around me (and pretty much anyone else) all day long. He started with this company a few years before me, but I'm two levels above him and have had a bigger paycheck since forever. I also came right in as an employee, while he had to backdoor his way in as a contractor who eventually became an employee. He would have a much harder time finding employment at another company than I would, and would likely need to take a backdoor route again if he were to.

This difference all comes down to degrees.

I came out of college maybe $30k in debt (went the CC/SUNY route for my undergrad work), but I more than made up for that, salary-wise, in just the first year or two, compared to my colleague. Had my employer pay for my graduate degree from Cornell, making me even more marketable. My colleague doesn't have that option as they don't pay for undergrad degrees.

Is all of this fair? No. Does it make sense? Not entirely, though a degree does establish an implied baseline of know-how, which makes hiring that person less risky. But, this is the way things are done. You have to play the game by the rules that are set. I had a mentor once tell me that the college degree was less about the education than it was showing that the potential employee could put the work in to succeed at significant challenges.

Plus, college was an absolute riot. I had absolutely no idea it would be that much fun, and I undoubtedly learned a ton while having the time of my life. I look back on those years with great fondness and confidence that I made a good investment.

That said, college is not for everyone, and this is where I think we falter. Guidance counselors seem to want to push everyone to college, when the reality is that it will just be a waste of time and money for many. People need to approach college with the understanding that the purpose of being there is to improve your employment prospects. Going beyond the traditional "art degree is a waste" example: I think going to college to be a teacher is a waste (though less so)... something that should only be done by people who have an actual desire to teach. It's not a lucrative field, though it does tend to offer employment stability.

Also, trades are not a bad thing in the least. I know lots of guys in various construction-related jobs that make money hand over fist. Plumbers and HVAC professionals can do quite well, for example, and are always in high demand.
Click to expand...

At the end of the day what did your degree cost you, including interest? Your coworker didn't have that debt. Now take that debt from your pay and compare to his. Are you really that much farther ahead?
 
SomeSoldier

SomeSoldier

.450/400 Nitro Ex
U.S. Military
Messages
10,440
Reaction score
20,175
Location
Florida
College is a scam. I was making $60k a year before I had my degree. The only reason I bothered with a degree is to play the game and yes it is a game and the Army paid for it.

I ran circles around most of my professors. There knowledge was outdated, they taught concepts, no real world skills. Also the waste of time taking classes that have zero benefit to my profession. Kids could be out of college with half the debt if they would stop requiring 13th century literature.

So anyone coming out of college was at a disadvantage to anyone that was working in the field already putting tools on their belt.

Also the reason college is so expensive is because the gov got involved and started subsidizing. Only the colleges benefited from that move. Probably done intentionally to produce more brainwashed liberals.
 
Depick

Depick

.308 Win
Messages
4,073
Reaction score
8,855
Location
Erie County
spat said:
The solution to run away costs is *not* to pass them on to the taxpayers.

That's like throwing gasoline on a fire.

You need to ask yourself *why* the cost of a college degree has risen at 4x the rate of inflation for the last 50 years.

In the 1970s a degree was affordable for most people *without* government assistance.

Then the feds decided to "help" with student loans, and academia just saw $$$ and costs skyrocketed.

There is absolutely no reason at all that a math or history degree costs anywhere near what it does, or any more than it did in 1960 (inflation adjusted).

Fix the root problem. "Taxpayer funded" is a recipe for disaster for *anything* that is "too expensive".
Click to expand...
I completely agree! Nearly everything the government touches turns to shit.

I despise the idea of taxpayer funded bailouts.
 
OwnTheRide

OwnTheRide

.223 Rem
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
2,408
Location
Allegany
SomeSoldier said:
At the end of the day what did your degree cost you, including interest? Your coworker didn't have that debt. Now take that debt from your pay and compare to his. Are you really that much farther ahead?
Click to expand...
I'll try to tabulate the cost, but the tl;dr is that yes, I came out way ahead. All numbers are rounded estimates, of course.

  • $30,000 - debt I was left with after college
  • $5,000 - interest paid on that debt
  • $5,000 - money paid out of pocket during school (books, etc)
  • $15,000 - opportunity cost (I presumably could have had jobs that paid more while I was in school)
That last one is a stretch, I was working full time throughout college, but I assume I could have made more if I could have found a single, full-time job and put the time and effort into working my way up. But, worth adding to consideration.

So that's around $55k. When I started working with my colleague, I was making about $15k more/yr than he was. So, within 4 years, I had earned enough to break even. In the 20 years since then, that earnings gap has only continued to grow as I moved up the ladder faster and obtained a graduate degree (which he was ineligible to do, since he had no undergrad degree). I now make about $50k more/yr than he does. Let's average that out to $30k/yr over the 20 years, so $600k more in earnings, much of which I plowed into savings, which earned lots of interest over the years... I'd estimate another $400k. So, right now, I've earned about $1m more than he has, doing the same job (that he does better). I've always been 1-2 promotion levels above his. And this story isn't over - we still have somewhere between 10 and 20 years of career ahead of us. if this trend holds, then we're looking at another $2m+ differential in wealth generation opportunities.

Other factors could have changed that in either direction, for example if either of us had decided to climb the corporate ladder rather than remain engineers, or bounced around between companies (which tends to inflate salary when done right). But, neither of us opted to do so, so it's a fairly apples-to-apples comparison.

There's also the hidden elements. We've both been with the same employer this entire time, but had we been moving around between companies, it would have been much easier, and more lucrative, for me. He would have had more difficulty getting interviews, lower salary offers, etc. As mentioned above, I was able to obtain a graduate degree from a prestigious school on my employer's dime, which opened up more opportunities.

Obviously, this isn't universal. My degrees were in high-demand, well-compensated fields. The same scale isn't going to apply to, say, art history majors, or teachers, LEOs, public servants, etc.

Also, keep in mind that this is comparing the career earnings of two engineers. Without that education, I'd likely be working construction or turning wrenches or something. So my total benefit of obtaining a degree is much, much more than the numbers we're talking about here.

Suffice it to say, my return on investment for college was massive. Once again, though, I have to point out that I chose a degree with significant employment opportunities that only grew over the years. That's really key. One has to approach college with that understanding, and choose a degree accordingly.
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
35,310
Reaction score
39,717
Location
Western NY
Depick said:
I’d like to see some mandatory financial education in high schools or a mandatory class before a student loan can be obtained.

Anything that will show the borrower the long term effect and repercussions of those loans.

Maybe even a capped fixed interest rate.

Im assuming Myron is your son? I would say that is the hard part of being a student. I used to schedule as many classes as I could on either a MWF or TTH schedule. I would be at school sun up to sun down and work the other days. I used to sign up for online courses as well. I had an entire semester of all online classes once. It sucked but somehow I managed to get through. I’m sure he’ll figure something out.
Click to expand...
Myron was supposed to be my son. I did the same as you did at community college and that worked out fantastic for me. UB is a different animal altogether. UB doesn’t care and they think it’s a privilege to let you in there. My son is a junior and he was able to get into 2 out of the five classes he needed this semester. Many times he has had classes at 9 am until noon then another class starting at 3 pm or so. Then on Thursday night he has a class until 6:30pm and all grades assignments are due for day so he comes home and does it immediately.
We make too much together anything at all so he can’t do the student jobs through the college and he is even accumulating interest on the loans he has while he’s in school. We are splitting the bill with him so it’s about $7,000 per year. Next year we will be doing the same for my youngest. So it’s about $1,500 per month. I can’t wait until they are done and my mortgage will be paid off very quickly after that. Then it’s all retirement with a boat and or a car for summer fun mixed in there.
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
35,310
Reaction score
39,717
Location
Western NY
OwnTheRide said:
I'll try to tabulate the cost, but the tl;dr is that yes, I came out way ahead. All numbers are rounded estimates, of course.

  • $30,000 - debt I was left with after college
  • $5,000 - interest paid on that debt
  • $5,000 - money paid out of pocket during school (books, etc)
  • $15,000 - opportunity cost (I presumably could have had jobs that paid more while I was in school)
That last one is a stretch, I was working full time throughout college, but I assume I could have made more if I could have found a single, full-time job and put the time and effort into working my way up. But, worth adding to consideration.

So that's around $55k. When I started working with my colleague, I was making about $15k more/yr than he was. So, within 4 years, I had earned enough to break even. In the 20 years since then, that earnings gap has only continued to grow as I moved up the ladder faster and obtained a graduate degree (which he was ineligible to do, since he had no undergrad degree). I now make about $50k more/yr than he does. Let's average that out to $30k/yr over the 20 years, so $600k more in earnings, much of which I plowed into savings, which earned lots of interest over the years... I'd estimate another $400k. So, right now, I've earned about $1m more than he has, doing the same job (that he does better). I've always been 1-2 promotion levels above his. And this story isn't over - we still have somewhere between 10 and 20 years of career ahead of us. if this trend holds, then we're looking at another $2m+ differential in wealth generation opportunities.

Other factors could have changed that in either direction, for example if either of us had decided to climb the corporate ladder rather than remain engineers, or bounced around between companies (which tends to inflate salary when done right). But, neither of us opted to do so, so it's a fairly apples-to-apples comparison.

There's also the hidden elements. We've both been with the same employer this entire time, but had we been moving around between companies, it would have been much easier, and more lucrative, for me. He would have had more difficulty getting interviews, lower salary offers, etc. As mentioned above, I was able to obtain a graduate degree from a prestigious school on my employer's dime, which opened up more opportunities.

Obviously, this isn't universal. My degrees were in high-demand, well-compensated fields. The same scale isn't going to apply to, say, art history majors, or teachers, LEOs, public servants, etc.

Also, keep in mind that this is comparing the career earnings of two engineers. Without that education, I'd likely be working construction or turning wrenches or something. So my total benefit of obtaining a degree is much, much more than the numbers we're talking about here.

Suffice it to say, my return on investment for college was massive. Once again, though, I have to point out that I chose a degree with significant employment opportunities that only grew over the years. That's really key. One has to approach college with that understanding, and choose a degree accordingly.
Click to expand...
Most times a college degree pays off in the end. For me I did community college and worked full time. My parents claimed me on their taxes and the return covered my college. Community college cost me nothing. I got my bachelors for $5,000 recently and just finished my masters. I don’t have $20,000 into my education and I have used it for every job I’ve ever had. Now I have a job that requires a masters degree and will make about $20,000 extra per year above the additional money I already had made for having my degree.
There are stupidly useless degrees that will never pay off but that’s on the moron selecting it.
My son’s degree will pay off. He’s doing water and soil stuff along with surveying and architecture stuff. His surveying is specific to environmental stuff and has a bit of engineering mixed in there. He will move onto get his masters as well and possibly in public health. He will have a really unique set of stuff.
 
SomeSoldier

SomeSoldier

.450/400 Nitro Ex
U.S. Military
Messages
10,440
Reaction score
20,175
Location
Florida
OwnTheRide said:
I'll try to tabulate the cost, but the tl;dr is that yes, I came out way ahead. All numbers are rounded estimates, of course.

  • $30,000 - debt I was left with after college
  • $5,000 - interest paid on that debt
  • $5,000 - money paid out of pocket during school (books, etc)
  • $15,000 - opportunity cost (I presumably could have had jobs that paid more while I was in school)
That last one is a stretch, I was working full time throughout college, but I assume I could have made more if I could have found a single, full-time job and put the time and effort into working my way up. But, worth adding to consideration.

So that's around $55k. When I started working with my colleague, I was making about $15k more/yr than he was. So, within 4 years, I had earned enough to break even. In the 20 years since then, that earnings gap has only continued to grow as I moved up the ladder faster and obtained a graduate degree (which he was ineligible to do, since he had no undergrad degree). I now make about $50k more/yr than he does. Let's average that out to $30k/yr over the 20 years, so $600k more in earnings, much of which I plowed into savings, which earned lots of interest over the years... I'd estimate another $400k. So, right now, I've earned about $1m more than he has, doing the same job (that he does better). I've always been 1-2 promotion levels above his. And this story isn't over - we still have somewhere between 10 and 20 years of career ahead of us. if this trend holds, then we're looking at another $2m+ differential in wealth generation opportunities.

Other factors could have changed that in either direction, for example if either of us had decided to climb the corporate ladder rather than remain engineers, or bounced around between companies (which tends to inflate salary when done right). But, neither of us opted to do so, so it's a fairly apples-to-apples comparison.

There's also the hidden elements. We've both been with the same employer this entire time, but had we been moving around between companies, it would have been much easier, and more lucrative, for me. He would have had more difficulty getting interviews, lower salary offers, etc. As mentioned above, I was able to obtain a graduate degree from a prestigious school on my employer's dime, which opened up more opportunities.

Obviously, this isn't universal. My degrees were in high-demand, well-compensated fields. The same scale isn't going to apply to, say, art history majors, or teachers, LEOs, public servants, etc.

Also, keep in mind that this is comparing the career earnings of two engineers. Without that education, I'd likely be working construction or turning wrenches or something. So my total benefit of obtaining a degree is much, much more than the numbers we're talking about here.

Suffice it to say, my return on investment for college was massive. Once again, though, I have to point out that I chose a degree with significant employment opportunities that only grew over the years. That's really key. One has to approach college with that understanding, and choose a degree accordingly.
Click to expand...

I assuming you paid off your loans early for only 5k in interest. When did you attend 90's?
 
OwnTheRide

OwnTheRide

.223 Rem
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
2,408
Location
Allegany
SomeSoldier said:
I assuming you paid off your loans early for only 5k in interest. When did you attend 90's?
Click to expand...
Yeah, late 90s. I didn't pay them off early, but there were many different loans with varying terms and they weren't eligible for consolidation, so most of them were paid off in the first 3-5 years. I might have underestimated the interest I paid, but I don't think it really changes anything.
 
Robin

Robin

.577 Tyrannosaur.
Messages
20,272
Reaction score
43,908
Location
Livingston County
I still regret not being able to help my kids more with their tuition. They chose to go to college, all of them borrowed money, two of them had assistance from the GI Bill, all of them have advanced degrees and are doing well. They have payed off their education loans. I guess by todays lack of standards this would be considered extraordinary.
Robin
 
Grimscale

Grimscale

.338 Win Mag
Messages
7,849
Reaction score
15,324
Location
Rochester
SomeSoldier said:
At the end of the day what did your degree cost you, including interest? Your coworker didn't have that debt. Now take that debt from your pay and compare to his. Are you really that much farther ahead?
Click to expand...
At the end of the day: yes, I'm a lot farther ahead.
But not because of what field my degree was in.
My co-worker and friend doesn't have a college degree and wouldn't even be considered for the job I hold now, even after 20 years of networking experience. Yet I got in with a degree totally unrelated to networking.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
 
SomeSoldier

SomeSoldier

.450/400 Nitro Ex
U.S. Military
Messages
10,440
Reaction score
20,175
Location
Florida
Grimscale said:
At the end of the day: yes, I'm a lot farther ahead.
But not because of what field my degree was in.
My co-worker and friend doesn't have a college degree and wouldn't even be considered for the job I hold now, even after 20 years of networking experience. Yet I got in with a degree totally unrelated to networking.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
Click to expand...
This is another reason college is a joke.
 
Bustedknees

Bustedknees

.308 Win
Messages
4,749
Reaction score
9,224
Location
Madison/oneida/lewis
Robin said:
I still regret not being able to help my kids more with their tuition. They chose to go to college, all of them borrowed money, two of them had assistance from the GI Bill, all of them have advanced degrees and are doing well. They have payed off their education loans. I guess by todays lack of standards this would be considered extraordinary.
Robin
Click to expand...
Me too, We did what we could and it's disgusting what they charge for food, housing, and if they would do something nationally on interest rates it would be a major fix.
My oldest slammed on his loan during Covid and payed off his two years of college in full. My Youngest, and the most book smart kid we have is like talking to a wall. He chose a very expensive four year school. Being young a gullible and hearing all the greatest promises of FREE loan forgiveness he fell hook, line, and sinker for all their bullshit. Now he will pay for it for several more years. Learning can hurt sometimes.
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
35,310
Reaction score
39,717
Location
Western NY
Robin said:
I still regret not being able to help my kids more with their tuition. They chose to go to college, all of them borrowed money, two of them had assistance from the GI Bill, all of them have advanced degrees and are doing well. They have payed off their education loans. I guess by todays lack of standards this would be considered extraordinary.
Robin
Click to expand...
I’m sure you did what you could. We help more than my desire because my wife had student loans. She felt they hindered her and want to keep my kids as low as possible. My son will end up with $22,500 from his bachelor’s degree. Between the car and assistance through his bachelor’s we will give him about $55,000 and I’m tapped at that. My younger son will get roughly the same.

My oldest plans to get his masters and he knows we’re not helping him for that so he plans to work and pay as he goes. I also told him as long as he’s in college I won’t charge him rent but after his bachelor’s he has to support himself in every way reasonable. I’ll still buy him groceries and stuff like that but car repairs and insurance fall on him then. I said we’d talk when he graduates on rent or if I’ll let him pay off his student loans rent free but I’ve always said they will start paying me rent 6 months after they are done with college so not sure I want to back off that. I guess we will see if his car holds up or not for rent.
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
35,310
Reaction score
39,717
Location
Western NY
Bustedknees said:
Me too, We did what we could and it's disgusting what they charge for food, housing, and if they would do something nationally on interest rates it would be a major fix.
My oldest slammed on his loan during Covid and payed off his two years of college in full. My Youngest, and the most book smart kid we have is like talking to a wall. He chose a very expensive four year school. Being young a gullible and hearing all the greatest promises of FREE loan forgiveness he fell hook, line, and sinker for all their bullshit. Now he will pay for it for several more years. Learning can hurt sometimes.
Click to expand...
My kids had zero option to go away or go to expensive schools. I’m contributing more than I planned because I refused to take out any loans in my name for them for college. I pay half of all their expenses for college and some other things as needed. We’re scaffolding my oldest to pay his entire car insurance next year.
I’ll add my kids are very appreciative and know what we do for them. They help without any arguing when asked. I told my kids I hate cutting the grass so guess what I’m not doing this year. They both said they would do it for me and I said great but know I’m not paying you for do it because we’re paying for all this other stuff as well. They said they understood and no problem.
 
OwnTheRide

OwnTheRide

.223 Rem
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
2,408
Location
Allegany
Saltwater60 said:
My oldest plans to get his masters and he knows we’re not helping him for that so he plans to work and pay as he goes.
Click to expand...
In many industries, it's quite common for the employer to pay for some/all of the costs of a (field-related) graduate degree. Given your son's degree choices, I'm guessing that will hold true for him as well. IMO, when he graduates, he should look for a job in his field that will cover the costs of his graduate degree.
 
Depick

Depick

.308 Win
Messages
4,073
Reaction score
8,855
Location
Erie County
Saltwater60 said:
I’m sure you did what you could. We help more than my desire because my wife had student loans. She felt they hindered her and want to keep my kids as low as possible. My son will end up with $22,500 from his bachelor’s degree. Between the car and assistance through his bachelor’s we will give him about $55,000 and I’m tapped at that. My younger son will get roughly the same.

My oldest plans to get his masters and he knows we’re not helping him for that so he plans to work and pay as he goes. I also told him as long as he’s in college I won’t charge him rent but after his bachelor’s he has to support himself in every way reasonable. I’ll still buy him groceries and stuff like that but car repairs and insurance fall on him then. I said we’d talk when he graduates on rent or if I’ll let him pay off his student loans rent free but I’ve always said they will start paying me rent 6 months after they are done with college so not sure I want to back off that. I guess we will see if his car holds up or not for rent.
Click to expand...
That’s extremely generous
 
SonOfSun

SonOfSun

.308 Win
Messages
4,772
Reaction score
5,878
Location
WNY
Saltwater60 said:
There needs to be controls put in both sides of the coin. No loans for pointless degrees but in the flip side of someone can’t help you financially there is no way you can afford college these days.
Myron goes to UB and his schedule is all over the place he can not work during the semester outside of Saturday and Sunday but he has struggled to find anyone will to hire him for less than 4 days per week. Another kids I know are complaining about the same.
Click to expand...
He could pay cash. I did. It's 13k a year.

I worked 32-40 hours a week during full time school and 60-80 over the summer. I saved it and paid cash. It sucked... but so do student loans. You don't NEED to take summers off or not work during school. You don't NEED to go to Cancun on spring break.

Make a choice and live with it. One thing is certain, it's not my job to pay for everyone else's college, that's on them.
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
35,310
Reaction score
39,717
Location
Western NY
OwnTheRide said:
In many industries, it's quite common for the employer to pay for some/all of the costs of a (field-related) graduate degree. Given your son's degree choices, I'm guessing that will hold true for him as well. IMO, when he graduates, he should look for a job in his field that will cover the costs of his graduate degree.
Click to expand...
That would be great and we would like that to happen but our plans do not include that in case it doesn’t happen. He plans to work for the state so they will pay some of it but of course he will accept any good job. I’m pushing him to not work for the state.
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
35,310
Reaction score
39,717
Location
Western NY
SonOfSun said:
He could pay cash. I did. It's 13k a year.

I worked 32-40 hours a week during full time school and 60-80 over the summer. I save it and paid cash. It sucked... but so do student loans.

Make a choice and live with it. One thing is certain, it's not my job to pay for everyone else's college, that's on them.
Click to expand...
Some can do that and others can’t. He’s one that can’t do that. He struggles with staying ahead of his work so working during the semester doesn’t really work for him with how much he needs to study and his school schedule. I did it and that’s why I’m giving him more money than I planned on. I never borrowed a penny for college and I have my masters degree. We paid cash for my wife’s PhD. He has worked over the summer and he is very good with his money. He saves and doesn’t spend. N
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
35,310
Reaction score
39,717
Location
Western NY
Depick said:
That’s extremely generous
Click to expand...
To be honest it’s more my wife than me. I only wanted to give him about half what we are and unfortunately he needed a car during the height of the pandemic so the only option was for us to buy new and give him our trade in. Anything else was way too many miles or way too much cash. My wife works extra jobs to provide this for him. She’s pretty wonderful actually.
To be fair I know it’s my son but he’s the nicest kid you’ll ever meet. He’s 21 and I never heard him swear or say a negative thing about anyone. Never called someone stupid or a moron and goes out of his way to help others. He provides rides, buy lunch for other college kids in need and has them over for holidays when they can’t get home. I’ve never heard him yell or raise his voice at anyone. He truly is the nicest person I know. Never one complaint in school either. So I guess he deserves it but I’d rather have my house paid off with the money I’m giving the kids.
 
GOPerfect

GOPerfect

.950 JDJ
U.S. Military
Messages
31,927
Reaction score
73,452
Location
No longer Secret, thanks DR. Evil
Saltwater60 said:
To be honest it’s more my wife than me. I only wanted to give him about half what we are and unfortunately he needed a car during the height of the pandemic so the only option was for us to buy new and give him our trade in. Anything else was way too many miles or way too much cash. My wife works extra jobs to provide this for him. She’s pretty wonderful actually.
To be fair I know it’s my son but he’s the nicest kid you’ll ever meet. He’s 21 and I never heard him swear or say a negative thing about anyone. Never called someone stupid or a moron and goes out of his way to help others. He provides rides, buy lunch for other college kids in need and has them over for holidays when they can’t get home. I’ve never heard him yell or raise his voice at anyone. He truly is the nicest person I know. Never one complaint in school either. So I guess he deserves it but I’d rather have my house paid off with the money I’m giving the kids.
Click to expand...


I charged my two older sons rent to live in my house after graduation from college. It is something that I kind of regret now. I wish I never did that.

My youngest is living with us here in Tenn. I won't charge him rent. Life right now is just too damn difficult for the younger generation.

He works the land, does a lot of the homestead maintenance, does a lot around the house. He is beginning life, I am not. I have no issues paying it forward to him now. Same with the 2 that are moving here next month. I have more than enough... I figure they either get it now while they are young and in a bit of need, or they get it down the road when I am dead. Everything that I have will someday be theirs, fuck it... Have it now.
 
OwnTheRide

OwnTheRide

.223 Rem
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
2,408
Location
Allegany
Saltwater60 said:
That would be great and we would like that to happen but our plans do not include that in case it doesn’t happen. He plans to work for the state so they will pay some of it but of course he will accept any good job. I’m pushing him to not work for the state.
Click to expand...
IMO, unless you're in a field that requires it, one should never pay for a graduate degree. The reality is that they just aren't necessary. A degree (which he'll already have) gets your foot in the door for employment, and he'll learn way more from actually doing the job than he will in grad school.

At my company, given two applicants with minimal experience, one with an undergrad degree and the other with both undergrad/grad, the only benefit the grad degree applicant can expect to see is starting as a level 2 instead of a level 1. But moving from level 1 to 2 typically occurs within 1-2 years. So, he could start after he graduates, earn money, and be level 2 in a year, or he could pay for an extra year in college and end up in the same position (with less actual work experience). Financially, though, he'd be up ~$100k (from 1 year of salary + not paying for grad school).

A degree basically boils down to a check on a box to get an interview. The real learning happens on the job. I learned more in my first year on the job than I did in all of my years of college.
 
OwnTheRide

OwnTheRide

.223 Rem
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
2,408
Location
Allegany
SonOfSun said:
He could pay cash. I did. It's 13k a year.

I worked 32-40 hours a week during full time school and 60-80 over the summer. I saved it and paid cash. It sucked... but so do student loans. You don't NEED to take summers off or not work during school. You don't NEED to go to Cancun on spring break.

Make a choice and live with it. One thing is certain, it's not my job to pay for everyone else's college, that's on them.
Click to expand...
Yup, I worked near-full time during school and well over full-time (2 jobs) in the summers. But, I needed to use the money to live - I moved out when I was 16, so there was no financial support of any kind coming from the family.
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
35,310
Reaction score
39,717
Location
Western NY
GOPerfect said:
I charged my two older sons rent to live in my house after graduation from college. It is something that I kind of regret now. I wish I never did that.

My youngest is living with us here in Tenn. I won't charge him rent. Life right now is just too damn difficult for the younger generation.

He works the land, does a lot of the homestead maintenance, does a lot around the house. He is beginning life, I am not. I have no issues paying it forward to him now. Same with the 2 that are moving here next month. I have more than enough... I figure they either get it now while they are young and in a bit of need, or they get it down the road when I am dead. Everything that I have will someday be theirs, fuck it... Have it now.
Click to expand...
I agree and that’s why I am backing off it a bit. My original was to have him pay the mortgage when he was done but I am no longer planning for that. My mortgage is less than he could rent a studio apartment for these days.
What I thought about doing was charging him like $250/month after he’s done with college and has a good job then returning half to him when he goes to buy a house without him knowing. The home prices and car prices are so cost prohibitive these days I’m rethinking what to do as long as he is saving and being responsible and I have no reason to believe he won’t be. He is great with money and at 21 he has almost $20,000 in the bank. I will say my desire to charge him rent has two motivating factors. One if I don’t I’m not sure he would ever move out and two he needs to get used to spending money and budgeting. He hoards his money and most times he makes the decision not to buy things and keep his cash. That’s not necessarily a bad thing but it’s to the point I’m afraid he would make that decision and not pay something or go without food to keep his money.

Also if your son is doing that much in my mind it would be like him paying rent through work. my son does help around the house but not as much as it sounds like your kid does. I’m trying to stay flexible, hold to my principles, and hold him to some sort of standard. It’s tough to guide adults and know what to do at times. This is wise advice and I have been leaning that way over the past year or two. Thanks!!
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
35,310
Reaction score
39,717
Location
Western NY
OwnTheRide said:
IMO, unless you're in a field that requires it, one should never pay for a graduate degree. The reality is that they just aren't necessary. A degree (which he'll already have) gets your foot in the door for employment, and he'll learn way more from actually doing the job than he will in grad school.

At my company, given two applicants with minimal experience, one with an undergrad degree and the other with both undergrad/grad, the only benefit the grad degree applicant can expect to see is starting as a level 2 instead of a level 1. But moving from level 1 to 2 typically occurs within 1-2 years. So, he could start after he graduates, earn money, and be level 2 in a year, or he could pay for an extra year in college and end up in the same position (with less actual work experience). Financially, though, he'd be up ~$100k (from 1 year of salary + not paying for grad school).

A degree basically boils down to a check on a box to get an interview. The real learning happens on the job. I learned more in my first year on the job than I did in all of my years of college.
Click to expand...
In his field the grad degree is not required and he will be working while doing the grad degree so I’m not sure there is much harm in it. He will be paying for it not me so it’s really up to him.
From what we have seen it’s similar to what you are saying and he could get a job without the grad degree but it would require more experience for promotions. I’m seeing more like 5 years experience at lower levels and the pay bump is around $20-$25,000 for the grad degree so I think it’s worth it for him in his case. We have a year and a half to figure it out.
 
Drinkthekoolaid

Drinkthekoolaid

.475 A&M Magnum
U.S. Military
Messages
16,274
Reaction score
28,827
Location
Unfortunately, NY
OwnTheRide said:
IMO, unless you're in a field that requires it, one should never pay for a graduate degree. The reality is that they just aren't necessary. A degree (which he'll already have) gets your foot in the door for employment, and he'll learn way more from actually doing the job than he will in grad school.

At my company, given two applicants with minimal experience, one with an undergrad degree and the other with both undergrad/grad, the only benefit the grad degree applicant can expect to see is starting as a level 2 instead of a level 1. But moving from level 1 to 2 typically occurs within 1-2 years. So, he could start after he graduates, earn money, and be level 2 in a year, or he could pay for an extra year in college and end up in the same position (with less actual work experience). Financially, though, he'd be up ~$100k (from 1 year of salary + not paying for grad school).

A degree basically boils down to a check on a box to get an interview. The real learning happens on the job. I learned more in my first year on the job than I did in all of my years of college.
Click to expand...


I have a "generic non professional" BA degree.
At most it "checked the box" to get me in the door to meet hiring pre requisites. I've worked my way up in a company and have gained enough experience to be doing MBA type work in my role with just a very non related BA degree.
(Was originally thinking to be a social studies teacher) I kinda regret it now. I should have followed that path to try and make a difference and re-program some of the kids brainwashing. Oh well
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
35,310
Reaction score
39,717
Location
Western NY
Drinkthekoolaid said:
I have a "generic non professional" BA degree.
At most it "checked the box" to get me in the door to meet hiring pre requisites. I've worked my way up in a company and have gained enough experience to be doing MBA type work in my role with just a very non related BA degree.
(Was originally thinking to be a social studies teacher) I kinda regret it now. I should have followed that path to try and make a difference and re-program some of the kids brainwashing. Oh well
Click to expand...
Kids nowadays revolt against that. MIT district has some conservative teachers and the kids revolted against them because they didn’t support their LGBTQ agenda enough. You’re glad you’re not a teacher.
 
spat

spat

.700 Nitro Express
Messages
29,547
Reaction score
62,192
Location
Formerly Geneseo, NY. Now free in AZ
Imagine someone mortgaged their house to invest with Bernie Madoff.

Then they lost it all when his scheme collapsed.

And people insisted the taxpayers should pay off that mortgage for him, and let Bernie keep all the money he stole.

Student loan forgiveness is like that.

If someone should be on the hook for swindling kids out of hundreds of thousands of dollars for worthless degrees, it should be the institutions that charged them and provided the degrees.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top