Do you support US involvement against Iran

Mosinitis said:

b]\ Actually Soviet Union was the the main force in defeat of Nazi Germany. This is simply a historical fact as much as it is swept under the rug in this country.

Click to expand...

Mosinitis said:

By the time D day came along the outcome of the war was already decided on the Eastern front. When Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin met at Yalta, Stalin was the top dog as he commanded the most powerful military at the time. Roosevelt was in poor health, but Churchill wasn't. They knew that Stalin would not be sidelined and had to make a deal on his terms. BTW, it was Stalin who insisted that France would be given a Victor nation status, Roosevelt and Churchill didn't want that.
Stalin was aware of possible deal with Germany that could be made behind his back. He kept some of the troops in reserve to counter that possibility, these troops could have helped Red Army in the battle for Berlin. He was even criticized for that.

Bill O'Reilly pushed this idiotic theory of Patton assassination for his retarded audience. Although politics in this country runs on lies and spin, the history is very clear.

Click to expand...

The belief that Patton was murdered predates Bill O'Reilly's birth.
The investigation into his murder was as shady as the investigations into JFK, RFK, MLK, and now both Trump Assassination attempts.

Whether or not Stalin could have been toppled is another matter. But we should have tried. America ruled the seas and skies, and I feel pretty good about the odds.
The USSR did not even have the Atom Bomb until after the Rosenbergs, put to death in 1953 for Treason, provided Nuclear Secrets to the USSR.
I certainly am not suggesting Truman should have bombed Russia, but many empires throughout history would have.
The Romans, in particular, never avoided an opportunity to expand.

My point here is that Regime Change is often a very good idea,
And I believe Russia to be a civilized country that would have chosen an effective leader, and freed from Communism, would have become an economic powerhouse long ago.
And an American Ally.

For that matter Russia and the USA were close friends for most of my life. Shared spacecraft and space stations.
Why they are not, I blame American Democrats. They make up crap about Russia all the time.
Recently Biden announced Russia could achieve the warm weather port Putin sought. But of course, Biden lied.
Since then Biden and the corrupt Zelensky have made fortunes on the blood of two great nations.
I'm not saying Putin is innocent, but he was tricked into the conflict.

CaseHardened said:

The belief that Patton was murdered predates Bill O'Reilly's birth.
The investigation into his murder was as shady as the investigations into JFK, RFK, MLK, and now both Trump Assassination attempts.

Whether or not Stalin could have been toppled is another matter. But we should have tried. America ruled the seas and skies, and I feel pretty good about the odds.
The USSR did not even have the Atom Bomb until after the Rosenbergs, put to death in 1953 for Treason, provided Nuclear Secrets to the USSR.
I certainly am not suggesting Truman should have bombed Russia, but many empires throughout history would have.
The Romans, in particular, never avoided an opportunity to expand.

My point here is that Regime Change is often a very good idea,
And I believe Russia to be a civilized country that would have chosen an effective leader, and freed from Communism, would have become an economic powerhouse long ago.
And an American Ally.

Click to expand...

The atomic bomb wasn't ready when Germany capitulated. U.S. Navy played only supportive role in defeat of Germany. The main battles that crushed German military were ground battles.
Germany had its own nuclear program and without being crushed by the Red Army it could have beat us to it.
There are other hypothetical theories how the West could have been screwed by Stalin. Red Army could have stopped at the 1941 Soviet Border and let U.S. and Britain deal with Hitler and his allies. Stalin could have made a separate peace with Japan, which Japan was anticipating, instead of defeating the Army of Kwantung and cutting off Japan from the mainland and supply of raw materials.

Actually Soviet Union never had a communism. They weren't able to build it and finally gave up. Sitting across the ocean and plotting regime changes in countries our government doesn't understand is a fool's errand. It does more harm than good even for our country, much less the rest of the world.

CaseHardened said:

Imagine what Germany would look like today if we had established a peace treaty with the Nazis once they realized they weren't going to win instead of eliminating them.

These scenarios are usually pointless, but entertaining.

I would first consider Germany without Hitler. He was deeply unpopular, and sickly.

With him gone (inevitable), what would the new regime look like?

Certainly the USSR would not have conquered most of Europe after the war.

It is at least possible that Germany would have become an ally, as Japan did, after its leadership was annihilated.

Perhaps that Germany would not be overrun by Muslims.

Take away the mass murder of Jews, and the urge to conquer, Nazi Germany would resemble many governments today.

Not exactly an American's cup of tea, but functional and non-threatening.

Click to expand...

I think you are not seeing what a Germany still under Nazi rule would look like.

For one thing, they would have been allowed to continue covering up the scale of their atrocities. Might even have been able to continue them.

Think of Iraq, post desert storm, but when Saddam was still in charge. Doesn't matter that he was wildly unpopular. It wasn't a democracy.

CaseHardened said:

For that matter Russia and the USA were close friends for most of my life. Shared spacecraft and space stations.
Why they are not, I blame American Democrats. They make up crap about Russia all the time.
Recently Biden announced Russia could achieve the warm weather port Putin sought. But of course, Biden lied.
Since then Biden and the corrupt Zelensky have made fortunes on the blood of two great nations.
I'm not saying Putin is innocent, but he was tricked into the conflict.

Click to expand...

I don't know when you were born, but I think "most of your life" might be a stretch.

Up through the 80s they were the "evil empire". In the 90s they were like a new dog we rescued from the pound, fresh out of bondage and we wanted to help them become successful global citizens.

By the mid 2000s it was clear they didn't *want* to just be successful global citizens, they wanted to be a super power again.

By the 2010s they had begin actively invading their neighbors, *again*. We should have put a quick stop to that then, and we wouldn't have the problems we do today.

But once again our isolationist attitudes have come back to bite us in the ass.

spat said:

I don't know when you were born, but I think "most of your life" might be a stretch.

Up through the 80s they were the "evil empire". In the 90s they were like a new dog we rescued from the pound, fresh out of bondage and we wanted to help them become successful global citizens.

By the mid 2000s it was clear they didn't *want* to just be successful global citizens, they wanted to be a super power again.

By the 2010s they had begin actively invading their neighbors, *again*. We should have put a quick stop to that then, and we wouldn't have the problems we do today.

But once again our isolationist attitudes have come back to bite us in the ass.

Click to expand...

I would need more specifics on your statements so as to agree or disagree.

I see a Government in DC selling America to the highest bidder, that is Communist China.

And Russia being a convenient scapegoat.

I maintain the world is a very dangerous place, and working a bit harder to retain Russia as an ally might be critical in the perhaps inevitable war with China.

Well, too late now.

CaseHardened said:

I would need more specifics on your statements so as to agree or disagree.

I see a Government in DC selling America to the highest bidder, that is Communist China.

And Russia being a convenient scapegoat.

Click to expand...

I do not think characterizing the US Russia relationship as "close friends" was ever accurate. And certainly for most of my life they were either outright enemies or just lumped in with the rest of the former Soviet Republics as "poor bastards in the east". Then the last 15 years or so, they have fallen into "major concern for the stability of Europe" territory.

The USSR were "Strange Bedfellows" in our fight against the Nazis.

It concerns me that next time they are more likely to join China.

And for what ... Russia has done none of the things our Democrat Communists have accused them, and Trump, of.

A potential ally squandered to appease traitors in our midst.