US and Iran conflict thread. ( merged threads)

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holdover

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spat said:
What makes Iran's say more final than ours ?

If we decide not to allow any ships through that negotiate passage with Iran, then none get through.

Are you seriously suggesting that we're just too nice to actually be in control ?
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Iran and Us both have the ability to destroy any ship that passes through, and your right if we decide none get through then none get through, correct. problem is so does Iran. Just because either country allows a ship to pass , the other country has a say in it because they can. We can stop Iran from sending ships to China, but we wont , because thats not in our interest . At this point we cant control what Iran does in the straight regarding shipping .

Not suggesting we are to nice ,lol. We have no interest in stopping European or Asain ships from moving through , thats all. Iran does have an interest to stop certain ships . And unless the US stops Iran by force or by diplomacy Iran can choose which ships they want to sink

Iran can dictate who can and cannot pass the straights , not much the US can do at this point until its settled one way or the other

The US just doesn't have any interest in stopping anyone , Iran does .
 
spat

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holdover said:
Iran and Us both have the ability to destroy any ship that passes through, and your right if we decide none get through then none get through, correct. problem is so does Iran. Just because either country allows a ship to pass , the other country has a say in it because they can. We can stop Iran from sending ships to China, but we wont , because thats not in our interest . At this point we cant control what Iran does in the straight regarding shipping .

Not suggesting we are to nice ,lol. We have no interest in stopping European or Asain ships from moving through , thats all. Iran does have an interest to stop certain ships . And unless the US stops Iran by force or by diplomacy Iran can choose which ships they want to sink

Iran can dictate who can and cannot pass the straights , not much the US can do at this point until its settled one way or the other

The US doesn't have any interest in stopping anyone , Iran does .
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But you are suggesting that Iran has more control over the straight the we do.

And I'm pointing out that there is no metric for "control" you can choose where that's true.

Just because they are choosing to exercise their control in ways we aren't doesn't mean they're any more "in control" than we are.
 
SonOfSun

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spat said:
So, if anyone who can shut down the straight controls it, then obviously we control it. Along with every other significant naval passage anywhere in the world.

Because Iran might be able to make that passage more risky than the ship owners want to chance, we sure as hell could eliminate anything bigger than a rowboat trying to get through there too.

OfC, they would have to settle for sinking the ships. We could seize them and redirect the oil where we want.

We could *easily* impose "sanctions" on anyone paying Iranian ransom and seize vessels on that pretext.

So, who controls it then ?
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Ability AND willingness - not just ability. Could the US force it open, as in do we have the military capacity to do so? I'd say likely yes. It's the willingness part.

We aren't willing to pay the cost that it would take to do so, despite our capacity to do so. If we were then Trump wouldn't be telling other countries to go open it. Maybe it's because he knows its going to cost a lot monetarily and likely lives too... so he doesn't have the willingness to do it. Iran is willing to do what it takes to control it so they control it. That's how this works.
 
spat

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SonOfSun said:
Ability AND willingness - not just ability. Could the US force it open, as in do we have the military capacity to do so? I'd say likely yes. It's the willingness part.

We aren't willing to pay the cost that it would take to do so, despite our capacity to do so. If we were then Trump wouldn't be telling other countries to go open it. Maybe it's because he knows its going to cost a lot monetarily and likely lives too... so he doesn't have the willingness to do it. Iran is willing to do what it takes to control it so they control it. That's how this works.
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Trump has been trying to get Europe to pull their share of the load for almost a decade now.

In his first term he warned them about being prepared to oppose Russia, and that relying on Russia for energy was a mistake. They literally laughed at him.

And in this case, the straight being closed is a major problem for Europe (and China). It's an inconvenience for us, at most.

This is literally just making them deal with the consequences of their shitty attitude for the last several decades.
 
SonOfSun

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spat said:
Just because we give everyone but Iran permission doesn't mean they don't need permission.

We could obviously stop any ship we wanted to. The fact that we choose not to doesn't change that
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Choosing not to makes the power irrelevant. If you have the world's biggest dick, but never fuck, what good does it do you?
 
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spat said:
But you are suggesting that Iran has more control over the straight the we do.
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At this point yes. they have closed it to her adversary's, perceived or imagined . the US cant open it up at this point so for now Yes, Iran has more control .

We can stop the hooties and hamas and maybe the Russians , but none of them are using the straights , soooo
 
Robin

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Yes, we have the ability to clear the Iranian coastline over night, the key words from the CIC were, "you want oil, go and get it".
There are many layers in this chess game and the contingencies are being monitored by one man.
Robin
 
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Robin said:
Yes, we have the ability to clear the Iranian coastline over night,
Robin
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But not tomorrow night. That kind of Operation is going to require a massive amount of resources that we just dont have in the theater at this time

Land based anti ship missiles are capable of 400 mile range at mach 3 , drones, 1000 plus. 2000 miles of Iranian coastline .add in antiship mines that lay on the bottom , its not a simple task .
 
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tirwin1 said:
Someone last night suggested we should charge to escort ships through the strait. I think that makes a lot of sense. Make the rest of the world pay for our protection.
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Sure, why not, they`ll just find another way to fuck us over some other way to get their money back out of us. This is just my own opinion, i don`t see where we gain anything helping these other country`s get their oil from Iran. I say fuck them, let them find a way to get their own shit from Iran. If they want it bad enough, then they will have to get off their dead beat fuckin asses and fix it themselves. Why are WE the only ones that fixes all the other country`s problem when we have way to many problems of our own. Fuck these shitholes & Assholes! AMERICA FIRST!
 
spat

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holdover said:
Come on man we are going to tell India and France, China they cant pass? because????????
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Maybe not India.

But the European countries that are telling us we can't fly planes over their territory, sure, why shouldn't we tell them "OK then, if we can't fly planes over Spain, then you can't sail ships through our straight".
 
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Robin

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holdover said:
But not tomorrow night. That kind of Operation is going to require a massive amount of resources that we just dont have in the theater at this time

Land based anti ship missiles are capable of 400 mile range at mach 3 , drones, 1000 plus. 2000 miles of Iranian coastline .add in antiship mines that lay on the bottom , its not a simple task .
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No one said it is simple. No one here knows what value and volume of arms are currently in theater.
Robin
 
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Are we at war or just playing war?
That is the question.
If at war, then be at war. This is the same crap every time. Smoke them. Control everything, take the oil, arm the people (cia), if we do not then all we have done is asked for the home land to be destroyed by people who are fighting the same war (religious) for THOUSANDS of years; It's in the koran.
 
JunkBoxFull

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SonOfSun said:
Choosing not to makes the power irrelevant. If you have the world's biggest dick, but never fuck, what good does it do you?
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WTF???
Well there`s you problem son, you didn`t learn that the dick is used for more than just fuckin! Bladder pain is no fun, son! Damn, didn`t yo daddy teach youz nuffin, son?
 
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fresch

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Call it what you like.
How ever the enemy IS fighting a religious war.
" There are no atheists in foxholes "
Without knowing what is going on in the meetings, remember those are obidong homosexual approved leaders we are dealing with; perhaps they needed to go.
 
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C3D said:
X is buzzing with reports a rescue in progress of the WSO from the lost Eagle.

Praying it’s true and successful . . .
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I heard there was fighting between the rescue team and Iranian guards .


Major clashes between US Army Special Forces and IRGC Ground Forces are reported in the Milas mount of the Rig Mountains in Charmahal and Bakhtiari Province, Iran. USAF CSAR teams have located the second crew member of the downed F-15E of the 494th FS and are attempting Show more
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UK Report

@UK_REPT

BREAKING — Clashes between Basijis and U.S. special forces - There are many casualties among the Islamic Republic’s forces.


The U.S. Air Force F-15E weapon systems officer has been recovered alive after ejecting over Iran yesterday, journalist Jack Murphy reports. He said the WSO was evading capture on the ground as Iranian forces searched the area, with a “massive firefight” reported at the recovery site. Murphy is a journalist and military commentator who previously served in U.S. Army Special Operations (including as a Green Beret). He is the co-founder of The High Side, hosts The Team House podcast, and reports on national security and covert operations.
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M9npj4DZ_normal.jpg


Jack Murphy

@JackMurphyRGR
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1h
Good news for once. F-15 WSO recovered alive. Was escaping and evading. Massive fire fight on tgt. Iranians were actively looking for him in the area.
 
stokes

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Bigfoot said:
You never seem to mention the most important part, the part that Iran armed with nuclear weapons would be a really bad thing for America, plus a lot of other countries, pretty much the whole world. That part doesn't fit into your agenda, does it?
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Seems to be salivating at the thought of high casualty rates and ultimate failure of our troops so he can blame Trump. TDS is real.
 
C3D

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holdover said:
I heard there was fighting between the rescue team and Iranian guards .


Major clashes between US Army Special Forces and IRGC Ground Forces are reported in the Milas mount of the Rig Mountains in Charmahal and Bakhtiari Province, Iran. USAF CSAR teams have located the second crew member of the downed F-15E of the 494th FS and are attempting Show more
View attachment 281347
UK Report
@UK_REPT

BREAKING — Clashes between Basijis and U.S. special forces - There are many casualties among the Islamic Republic’s forces.


The U.S. Air Force F-15E weapon systems officer has been recovered alive after ejecting over Iran yesterday, journalist Jack Murphy reports. He said the WSO was evading capture on the ground as Iranian forces searched the area, with a “massive firefight” reported at the recovery site. Murphy is a journalist and military commentator who previously served in U.S. Army Special Operations (including as a Green Beret). He is the co-founder of The High Side, hosts The Team House podcast, and reports on national security and covert operations.
Quote






M9npj4DZ_normal.jpg


Jack Murphy

@JackMurphyRGR
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1h
Good news for once. F-15 WSO recovered alive. Was escaping and evading. Massive fire fight on tgt. Iranians were actively looking for him in the area.
Click to expand...


Fighting SF on the ground is bad enough for a bunch of Basij idiots with AK-47s . . . but the AF was flying at least two AC-130s and 2 pairs of A10s overhead. Plus a bunch of helos including gunships. Imagine the hell raining down on the Iranians.
 
Beerman

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spat said:
But you are suggesting that Iran has more control over the straight the we do.

And I'm pointing out that there is no metric for "control" you can choose where that's true.

Just because they are choosing to exercise their control in ways we aren't doesn't mean they're any more "in control" than we are.
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Trump kinda sorta thinks Iran is in control of Hormuz, too. Otherwise there really wouldn’t be an issue and he would stop saying things like “Open the Strait within 48 hours or we’ll rain hell upon your heads” or some such similar warning.
 
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