Training Companies/Schools

Stretz Tactical Inc. · Sep 13, 2016

I already posted in the introduction page, but I will post here also:

My name is Ken Stretz and I am the President and Lead Instructor of Stretz Tactical Inc. - a tactical firearms training company based out of Westchester County, NY. While we conduct most of our classes in Westchester and Putnam Counties, we can come to your range, gun club, department or unit.

We provide training in the following areas:

Handgun
- 4 Hour Marksmanship class
- 4 Hour Low Light Pistol
- 1 Day Basic Tactical Pistol
- 2 Day Advanced Tactical Pistol
- 1 Day Concealed Carry Skill Development
- 1 Day Force On Force Concealed Carry - USING SIMUNITION & UTM NOT AIRSOFT!

Carbine
- 2 Day Tactical Carbine

Shotgun
-2 Day Tactical Shotgun

We have trained actors and worked with production companies to provide on screen talent and consulting - such as working with EFO Films to provide training for model Jenna Kelly to provide her with training for her role in Precious Cargo with Bruce Willis and complex media to do a promo for the TV Show Quantico. We provided a 2 day private tactical pistol class for a group of NYPD anti-crime officers from the Bronx after they got in a gunfight and felt under trained. We have trained soldiers, law enforcement - patrol, detective, swat, corrections, nuclear security guards as well as responsible citizens.

Follow us on https://www.facebook.com/StretzTactical/?fref=ts , instagram https://www.instagram.com/stretztactical/ and check out our website:http://www.stretztactical.com/

Thank you and Stay Safe!

OnSight Firearms Training · Sep 18, 2016

Thanks for the mention and the kind words.
While we are all stuck in NY dealing with bulls*&t laws that serve no purpose other than to harass law abiding gun owners, we make do with what we have.
It's great to see so many people into serious training and not just settling for going to the "public range" once a month to fire 50 to 100 rounds from a table or bench.
There are quite a few great outlets for life saving information in our area.
Chris Fry & M.D.T.S. Training are phenominal. Absolutely fantastic instructor with a good hearted down to earth personality.
I hear nothing but great stuff about Stretz Tactical as well.

If you are down to travel a few hours, Sig Sauer Academy is the place to go, as well as as few others:
FPF Training in Culpeper, VA
Raven Firearms Training in Dalton, NH
Protective Shooting Concepts in Pittsburgh, PA
and anything and everything offered by Steve Fisher and Sentinel Concepts. (OH, MI, WV)

Celt said:
Below are some training companies I have experience with, and Id recommend all of them.

Www.mdtstraining.com -all over NY

Www.stretztactical.com - Downstate

Welcome to Onsight Firearms Training, LLC - Downstate

Fortress Consulting Group LLC - Training for life. - Downstate

This is a long gun training school in western NY I plan to attend one of these days.

Long Gun Training

The companies below are reputable based on reading countless reviews and watching many youtube videos on them. They hold classes in Pa which is a reasonable drive from NY.

Training

Rockwell Tactical Group

Id also like to get up to:

SIG SAUER Academy

If anyone has a reputable school that is within reasonable driving distance from NY, please list it.

OnSight Firearms Training · Sep 19, 2016

Celt said:
I

It was great shooting with you this weekend man. Onsight is a company that trains with other trainers; which is important from a mindset perspective.

If you choose to train with them, you can rest assured your going to learn something and have fun.

Thanks Jon,
I tell everyone who come to us, train with everyone. Train with us (obviously

, train with Paul @ Aim Small, train with Stretz, try with Chris Fry, train with any instructor/trainer who still trains with other instructors. Just do not train with anyone who no longer trains themselves. Avoid people who "know it all" or "know everything there is to know, and no one knows more than them". That mentality will just get you a fast track ticket to the glass ceiling.

Stretz Tactical Inc. · Sep 19, 2016

I agree, unless you did a career in Tier 1 special operations and have literally been there done that, a good instructor will train with as many quality instructors as they can. Some of those guys will still train with others occasionally after they ETS from service. TTP's (tactics, techniques and procedures) change. CQB is a good example, CQB today is not done the same way as it was when the GWOT started. Another good example is the over-rated "gross motor skills vs. fine motor skill" debate. Most people realize now that was way over emphasized back in the day and very few people teach that any more and I can tell you from first hand experience - that's a good thing.

Some instructors take what they heard from someone else in 1 class and make it their doctrine. There is no such thing as "the way". Even in a particular high end unit - One operator, team or squadron, may do something a little different from the next. Same goes for law enforcement. Often times instructor ability from multiple guys in the same unit goes from piss poor, to really making you improve and teaching you something. Even a technique that may generally be a no-no, may have it's time and place in a given situation.

My advice is ask yourself what is your "mission"? Mil? If so, what is your MOS? Will the class I want to take be beneficial to my unit/team/my survival? Or does it look cool, so you want to do it? Having fun is important, but if you have a limited training budget and time off, is it worth it for you as a cook, to take an explosive breaching class? Are you LEO? Corrections/patrol/detective/UC/SWAT? Same thing, take a class that will apply to your mission. Same goes for civilians. I have seen guys show up for a live fire Mil/LEO only CQB class that someone got them in, decked out in crye precision kit and fatigues. Military CQB and LEO CQB have some similarities, but also differ especially depending on the units themselves. A civilian clearing their house or moving during an active shooter event is nothing like team CQB,

Train with as many instructors as you can, research their background, their training, real world experience and talk to people who have trained with them before you drop your hard earned cash, stock up on ammo, drive a distance and pay for a hotel room. In the end, even if the instructor isn't so hot and your not happy with them overall, you still might learn something - the whole "even a broken clock is right twice a day principal".

OnSight Firearms Training · Sep 19, 2016

Stretz Tactical Inc. said:
"There is no such thing as "the way". ".

EXACTLY.
The "my way or the highway" mindset should be avoided like a landmine filled with AIDS. Think about it like you would a toolbox, different tools and different types of the same tool for every job. I wouldn't pound in finishing nails with a ball peen hammer, nor would I hammer in roofing nails with a jewelers hammer. Every situation has it's own specific and appropriate solution. The LE/MIL way will not always be the best choice for the "armed citizen", and vice versa. Situations, environment, body types, laws & legalities will all influence your response to whatever the 'threat" is you are facing. Drawing your pistol or knife might not be the best idea at the time. Getting down on one knee might not work right now.
Real world experience is great and I agree, if you have never been in any form of physical confrontation where you were presented with lethal force or serious bodily injury by another person, it's hard to really grasp the urgency of those situations. But again, what works in LE/MIL training isn't always the best option for regular civilians.
I try not to get tripped up in that misconception that only LE and MIL background instructors can/should be teaching this stuff. I do not discredit them, again, it's all tools in the toolbox, but you have many instructors out there without that background that do a great job. Chris Fry is a great example of that.
The idea is to avoid the fight. That is the best way to win. If you cannot avoid, then yes fight for your life. As an "armed civilian" we are not obligated to go running to the sound of gunfire, and we shouldn't. Avoid it. Get out. Get away.

Stretz Tactical Inc. · Sep 19, 2016

Yes, real world experience is very important. As far as the mil/LE/civilian scenarios go, some are similar and some are different. Duty to retreat vs. duty to act. Even the military has rules of engagement and unfortunately people have been prosecuted under UCMJ for doing the right thing because someone else interpreted the ROE differently than the troops on the ground. Same goes for law enforcement. Having had to account for my use of deadly physical force to a DA and homicide investigators as well as in the following civil proceeding and having scene civilians go through the same thing, on the criminal side I can tell you first hand, it's very similar. The civil suit side is a very different as law enforcement is indemnified as long as they weren't grossly negligent. That's why I am a big believer in self defense insurance for civilians and I have been considering it for myself when traveling out of state.

While avoiding a fight is smart and it is true there is no duty to act for civilians - even an off duty cop can resort to being a good witness, in my humble opinion, I think it is situation dependent. Are you alone or with family? Do you realize you can be mistaken by law enforcement or another permit holder if you act? Can you safely take a shot in the given situation and at your skill level with the gun you are carrying? I know cop or not, if I heard people getting mowed down and killed and I left without intervening and at least try to stop the fight and God knows how many more people died or got injured because I fled the scene, I would have a hard time living with myself. I would think about my family being there and someone with the training and tools to stop the killing abandoning them and how that would make me feel. Again every scenario is situation dependent and this is something each person has to decide for themselves, the moment they decide to start carrying a gun. I know an off duty SGT who was in a pizza place that was being robbed - the guy threw him against the counter. He was armed and could have intervened, but decided against it. Just my .02 cents, your milage may vary.

togmaster · Sep 19, 2016

Great information guys. I hope to train with both of you in the near future.

OnSight Firearms Training · Sep 19, 2016

Celt said:
Thats a great point Ben (and Ken made a similar point), "I try not to get tripped up in that misconception that only LE and MIL background instructors can/should be teaching this stuff. "

I think most smart trainers will acknowledge that a well trained non LE/MIL citizen can be a very effective instructor in the realm of armed citizens. Most armed citizens NEED different instruction than LE/MIL as we are dealing with different scenarios. But "cross training" absolutely has its benefits, and frankly can be alot of fun too.

Part of being a good instructor is knowing how to teach and being able to work with people. I know guys who have been in the LE and MIL fields for over a decade and would make horrible instructors if they ever chose that path due to their personalities and ability to interact with others. At the same time I know LE, MIL, and Civs who are excellent at teaching, so really it comes down to the persons grasp of the concepts they are teaching and their ability to get their students to comprehend and gain knowledge.

OnSight Firearms Training · Sep 19, 2016

Stretz Tactical Inc. said:
While avoiding a fight is smart and it is true there is no duty to act for civilians - even an off duty cop can resort to being a good witness, in my humble opinion, I think it is situation dependent. Are you alone or with family? Do you realize you can be mistaken by law enforcement or another permit holder if you act? Can you safely take a shot in the given situation and at your skill level with the gun you are carrying? I know cop or not, if I heard people getting mowed down and killed and I left without intervening and at least try to stop the fight and God knows how many more people died or got injured because I fled the scene, I would have a hard time living with myself. I would think about my family being there and someone with the training and tools to stop the killing abandoning them and how that would make me feel. Again every scenario is situation dependent and this is something each person has to decide for themselves, the moment they decide to start carrying a gun. I know an off duty SGT who was in a pizza place that was being robbed - the guy threw him against the counter. He was armed and could have intervened, but decided against it. Just my .02 cents, your milage may vary.

At the end of my day, my job is come home to my family, alive and without more holes than I left with. I am not paid to do what LE does. Do I practice what I preach. *sigh* no. I wish I could. Yeah I see a burning building people inside screaming for help, I will tell YOU to call 911 get help, call the FD, get to safety, but I know in the back of my mind as I am telling you to do this I would be on my inside to save who I could. Some people are just like that.

I would PREFER to not get involved, but I can't make that call until I'm faced with it.

If I am out someplace with my wife or other family/friends, my job right there is to get them to safety. One of my mentors always says, you should have a mental list of who you are willing to kill or die for. Are you willing to run towards the sound of AK fire in a mall full of people you don't know? Should I? As a civilian, I run through the mall gun in hand, hoping to save the day and i get shot by a cop or some other armed citizen gun in hand, hoping to save the day, OR do I turn the corner, see what is perceived as the bad guy and put holes in a undercover, plain clothed, or off duty LE, armed citizen gun in hand, hoping to save the day, or someone else who was NOT the bad guy. Perception and information is huge in that situation and if I don't have all of it at that time, do I belong there?
As someone who does not have a badge, my immediate duty is protect myself and my family.

As for your SGT friend, yeah being RIGHT THERE, when it happens, having a physical contact in the event and doing nothing,....probably not the course of action either of us would take.

Stretz Tactical Inc. · Sep 19, 2016

I also think people forget that military and law enforcement folks are also citizens and any of the mil/le guys I have trained with explain the mil/le/civilian applications to a class that is mixed. No instructor that I have trained with, that has a mil/le background, myself included, would tell a civilian to do something that would get them jammed up. I think there are a lot of misconceptions out there. I had a SWAT team commander tell me one time that they would never bring in a former special operations instructor to teach them anything "because they just go in and kill everyone" - that is the furthest thing from the truth. Concept vs. reality. Any good Mil/LE instructor will tailor their hard won training and experience to the audience they are teaching. I have also trained with a few guys with incredible backgrounds that couldn't teach, had bad attitudes and while they had a cult like following, lost a lot of business from it and had a bad name from former team mates and former students. Do your research and make your own decisions

Stretz Tactical Inc. · Sep 19, 2016

OnSight Firearms Training said:
At the end of my day, my job is come home to my family, alive and without more holes than I left with. I am not paid to do what LE does. Do I practice what I preach. *sigh* no. I wish I could. Yeah I see a burning building people inside screaming for help, I will tell YOU to call 911 get help, call the FD, get to safety, but I know in the back of my mind as I am telling you to do this I would be on my inside to save who I could. Some people are just like that.

I would PREFER to not get involved, but I can't make that call until I'm faced with it.

If I am out someplace with my wife or other family/friends, my job right there is to get them to safety. One of my mentors always says, you should have a mental list of who you are willing to kill or die for. Are you willing to run towards the sound of AK fire in a mall full of people you don't know? Should I? As a civilian, I run through the mall gun in hand, hoping to save the day and i get shot by a cop or some other armed citizen gun in hand, hoping to save the day, OR do I turn the corner, see what is perceived as the bad guy and put holes in a undercover, plain clothed, or off duty LE, armed citizen gun in hand, hoping to save the day, or someone else who was NOT the bad guy. Perception and information is huge in that situation and if I don't have all of it at that time, do I belong there?
As someone who does not have a badge, my immediate duty is protect myself and my family.

As for your SGT friend, yeah being RIGHT THERE, when it happens, having a physical contact in the event and doing nothing,....probably not the course of action either of us would take.

Again situation dependent and something each person has to decide for themselves - I may not know a mall full of people, but I have loved ones, friends, co workers and other human beings that shop in malls. I have seen people die in front of me, I have done CPR on countless people, I have seen cops shoot at people, I have heard gunfire while standing roll call and while walking foot posts. I have seen more people shot and stabbed then I can remember, I have successfully encountered people armed with guns and knives without firing a shot, I interrupted an armed robbery and fought with the robber and won without taking their life when it was justified - the SGT I mentioned earlier was right there too fighting with the suspect. and I have been forced to take a life to save a life. I have pointed guns at countless people and had them pointed back. I have learned a lot - what to do and what not to do, what worked and what didn't. At the same time, I don't take these decisions lightly because I know all to well what death looks like. But to quote a former special operations mentor of mine "If someone is shooting up a mall or a school or whatever and all I have is a pocket knife - I'm going in, but that is just me"

OnSight Firearms Training · Sep 19, 2016

Stretz Tactical Inc. said:
I also think people forget that military and law enforcement folks are also citizens and any of the mil/le guys I have trained with explain the mil/le/civilian applications to a class that is mixed. No instructor that I have trained with, that has a mil/le background, myself included, would tell a civilian to do something that would get them jammed up. I think there are a lot of misconceptions out there. I had a SWAT team commander tell me one time that they would never bring in a former special operations instructor to teach them anything "because they just go in and kill everyone" - that is the furthest thing from the truth. Concept vs. reality. Any good Mil/LE instructor will tailor their hard won training and experience to the audience they are teaching. I have also trained with a few guys with incredible backgrounds that couldn't teach, had bad attitudes and while they had a cult like following, lost a lot of business from it and had a bad name from former team mates and former students. Do your research and make your own decisions

Yes and no. The training that is available to the average citizen/non LE/MIL is going to be different than that which is received at an academy or basic training, advanced MIL training, etc. Not to mention that in a crap situation I may not have that partner or team to back me up/pull me out, patch me up, etc.
Cross training is the ultimate option. Having trained with and under instructors from all three backgrounds, I have heard conflicting opinions on what to do, how to do it, why this way is better than that way, etc. Again it comes down to one person's opinion, tools in the toolbox, different ways of achieving the same result = surviving.
For example something this simple: about 10 years ago, took a class with one instructor on a Friday who said in a kneeling position, kneel with your shooting knee up so you fall back behind cover if hit, next day another instructor says to kneel with your shooting knee down (opposite knee up) to limit exposure.
I have seen this type of debate going back a longtime in the martial arts world. We would have one sensei tell us one way of doing something, and another a different way.
Take it all. Use it according to the situation at hand.
I had a student who works for a security company down in SC tell me that their firearms instructor at work told them in the event of a shootout/fire fight, etc that they should engage their safety on their M4s during magazine change. He asked me if I thought that was good idea. I gave him my opinion, to which he replied "yeah that's what I thought", but I told him, "you know whats right. You know what you will do when someone is shooting at you. but in class, do as your instructor says, but also, on your own, train the way you think is right.

OnSight Firearms Training · Sep 19, 2016

Stretz Tactical Inc. said:
Again situation dependent and something each person has to decide for themselves - I may not know a mall full of people, but I have loved ones, friends, co workers and other human beings that shop in malls. I have seen people die in front of me, I have done CPR on countless people, I have seen cops shoot at people, I have heard gunfire while standing roll call and while walking foot posts. I have seen more people shot and stabbed then I can remember, I have successfully encountered people armed with guns and knives without firing a shot, I interrupted an armed robbery and fought with the robber and won without taking their life when it was justified - the SGT I mentioned earlier was right there too fighting with the suspect. and I have been forced to take a life to save a life. I have pointed guns at countless people and had them pointed back. I have learned a lot - what to do and what not to do, what worked and what didn't. At the same time, I don't take these decisions lightly because I know all to well what death looks like. But to quote a former special operations mentor of mine "If someone is shooting up a mall or a school or whatever and all I have is a pocket knife - I'm going in, but that is just me"

I will start off by saying, I am glad I do not have your job. Seriously. Apart from the obvious job hazards you guys also have to deal with the thankless scumbags out there that constantly blame police for the actions of idiots. NEWS FLASH: Dont want to get shot by a cop? Dont point a gun or knife at them. Problem solved.
I have never taken a life. Never had to, hope I never have to. Never been shot, never been stabbed. When I lived in the city, hung out in the city, I saw guns, knives, bats everything. In the late 80s and 90s I saw just about everything. Working security in the 90s at various clubs there was a lot of "hands on". Beer bottles, both broken and full were weapons of choice. Saw people shot, saw people stabbed. Rolled down a flight of stone stairs with a POS in headlock. Opened firedoor exits with peoples faces, etc For he most part the scumbags tend to steer clear of me, perhaps its my smile. Perhaps I don't look like an easy target.
It wasn't until I moved out of the city and up to Westchester that I ever had to pull a gun on anyone. And even that I have only had to do twice. Once when 5 kids tried to push their way into our house, and another time out in front of our house in the driveway. Neither time did I have to fire. Both times the scumbags responded to verbal communication and object awareness.

OnSight Firearms Training · Sep 19, 2016

Celt said:
Great discussion guys, and having you guys sharing your knowledge and experience is greatly appreciated.

I hope you guys stick around and post in other topics as well as I intend to keep this Forum very active and full of good quality information. I want this place to be a resource for everyone looking to get quality training.

I'm going to try to post up good topics for discussion every week and your guy's input would be tremendously valuable.

No problem Jon. I have sent the link out to a bunch of NYers I know that would dig this place and rest assured, while i cannot speak for Kenny, I will post as much as I can where I see fit. Great forum, hope to see it thrive.

NirvanaFan · Sep 19, 2016

Great info from everyone here. I'm glad to have some great instructors post here. I hope people see this info and seek out training because of it.

And, thanks @Celt for taking the time and effort to help out here.

Stretz Tactical Inc. · Sep 19, 2016

Celt said:
Great discussion guys, and having you guys sharing your knowledge and experience is greatly appreciated.

I hope you guys stick around and post in other topics as well as I intend to keep this Forum very active and full of good quality information. I want this place to be a resource for everyone looking to get quality training.

I'm going to try to post up good topics for discussion every week and your guy's input would be tremendously valuable.

Will do! Always willing to share my experience when I can!

Joe · Sep 21, 2016

I have only just begun my journey to "defensive carry enlightenment " but thus far I'm glad to say I have had some extremely wise & excellent instruction. I've learned how important things like critical decision making, quality holster options, numerous holster options, training on your carry methods really are. Marksmanship, accountability of ALL shots fired, efficiency of motor skills, every class I've done has taught me so much more about all these critical concepts that, to be honest, when I turned 21 and got my permit, never even crossed my mind.

I can't speak highly enough of the training I received so far. Anyone interested in references or my personal experiences with the individual company's can feel free to contact me.

OnSight Firearms Training
OSOK Industries / Ridgeline Outfitters
MDTS
FPF
Raven Firearms training
Sig Sauer Academy
Wolf Precision

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