Water Bath Canning Meat .. and more ... canning cake mix .. do you really need a 400 dollar pressure canner ?

[Acer-m14]

water bath canning meats is a 3 hour process .. pressure canning is like 90 min if i remember

now i know what my uncle Bill who raised Rabbits for food meant when he cold packed the rabbit meat in the mason jars ..


this one has some science to it .. a bit long ..

water bath vs pressure canning a cake mix .. neither reached the temp to kill botulism

pressure canning the cake was only like 30 mins in the canner .. i think ..

 

[repete]

$400 for a canner? No way, we have two and 400 would cover the cost of both including tax and the gas to go get em!
Just my .02 cents I wouldn't trust water bath for meat, maybe 100 years ago or if the world ended but only then.

 

[Acer-m14]

$400 for a canner? No way, we have two and 400 would cover the cost of both including tax and the gas to go get em!
Just my .02 cents I wouldn't trust water bath for meat, maybe 100 years ago or if the world ended but only then.

make that 499.00

https://www.amazon.com/All-American-30-Quart-Pressure-Cooker/dp/B0002808Z2/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1WMWM4TAT7ZZ6&keywords=american+pressure+canner&qid=1697084133&sprefix=american+pressure+canner%2Caps%2C154&sr=8-1-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.c3015c4a-46bb-44b9-81a4-dc28e6d374b3&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

 

[spat]

make that 499.00

https://www.amazon.com/All-American-30-Quart-Pressure-Cooker/dp/B0002808Z2/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1WMWM4TAT7ZZ6&keywords=american+pressure+canner&qid=1697084133&sprefix=american+pressure+canner%2Caps%2C154&sr=8-1-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.c3015c4a-46bb-44b9-81a4-dc28e6d374b3&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

You can spend as much money as you want on anything.

That doesn't mean you need to.

Glacier Grand Edison Bulb - 12.5" LED Filament

Glacier LED Bulb

vintagewireandsupply.com

Just because that thing is $70 doesn't mean "light bulbs are $70".

Presto 01264 6-Quart Aluminum Pressure Cooker, Silver https://a.co/d/cLqm7Sv

That's not as nice as the 30qt for sure, but it will get the job done for 1/10th the price.

 

[Acer-m14]

Presto 01264 6-Quart Aluminum Pressure Cooker, Silver https://a.co/d/cLqm7Sv

that's a pressure cooker not a canner


Can I use pressure cooker as pressure canner?


To be classified as a pressure canner, a pressure cooking vessel must hold at least four, upright, closed quart jars. That is because smaller pressure cookers or pressure saucepans heat too quickly and cool down too slowly to provide adequate heat for a canning process.

 

[spat]

that's a pressure cooker not a canner


Can I use pressure cooker as pressure canner?


To be classified as a pressure canner, a pressure cooking vessel must hold at least four, upright, closed quart jars. That is because smaller pressure cookers or pressure saucepans heat too quickly and cool down too slowly to provide adequate heat for a canning process.

A smaller vessel would cool more quickly than a large one.

You could easily manage the temp by adjusting the burner you have it on anyway. If you want it to heat or cool slowly, set it on "low" for 10 mins before turning it on or off.

Certainly the larger vessel will be easier to use, but the small cheap one is entirely adequate.

 

[pjzwtl]

Unless you’re pickling the meat I wouldn’t water bath it. That’s rolling the dice.

 

[Acer-m14]

Unless you’re pickling the meat I wouldn’t water bath it. That’s rolling the dice.

why ??

because the USDA says so now ??

 

[pjzwtl]

why ??

because the USDA says so now ??

No because you can not get the water hot enough boiling temp is the max. A pressure canner can get above 240. People knew this before the USDA said so

 

[Acer-m14]

People knew this before the USDA said so

waiting for the facts now from the people before the USDA


please post them ..

 

[spat]

waiting for the facts now from the people before the USDA


please post them ..

The History of Home Canning and Preserving Food

canningdiva.com

 

[pjzwtl]

Fact: The boiling point of water is 212f no matter how long you boil it it will only be 212.

Fact: To be sure any Botulism spores are killed you need 240f

I’m not trying to be a dick to you but your reposting information from tendon internet experts that can make people sick.. deathly sick

 

[spat]

Fact: The boiling point of water is 212f no matter how long you boil it it will only be 212.

Fact: To be sure any Botulism spores are killed you need 240f

I’m not trying to be a dick to you but your reposting information from tendon internet experts that can make people sick.. deathly sick

The boiling point of water depends on pressure.

At my house it's closer to 200 than 212. It's only 212 at sea level.

At high enough altitude it drops below body temp.

At high pressure, it can go over 1000 degrees.

A pressure canner works by increasing the pressure to increase the boiling point high enough to sterilize the contents.

But that is not the only way to get a temp above 212.

 

[pjzwtl]

The boiling point of water depends on pressure.

At my house it's closer to 200 than 212. It's only 212 at sea level.

At high enough altitude it drops below body temp.

At high pressure, it can go over 1000 degrees.

A pressure canner works by increasing the pressure to increase the boiling point high enough to sterilize the contents.

But that is not the only way to get a temp above 212.

Yea we no this but we’re in NY were its 212 your in free America

 

[Acer-m14]

Fact: To be sure any Botulism spores are killed you need 240f

you mean the Toxin they produce .. correct

 

[spat]

you mean the Toxin they produce .. correct

No, the spores.

The toxin would be produced long after the canning process, when everything was room temperature.

The toxin itself can be destroyed much easier. Like 180F for 5 mins is enough.

But, that would have to be done at the time of consumption, not during the canning process.

I suppose if it's SHTF and you have some suspect canned food and nothing else, re-running the canning process before eating it might be enough. But I'd have to be pretty desperate before doing anything other than throwing the suspect food away.

 

[Acer-m14]

can we make up our minds ..

right from the PDF

"How can botulism be prevented? Only cooking or boiling food destroys botulinum toxin. Freezing does not destroy the toxin. If you prepare or eat traditionally prepared Alaska Native foods, the food safety tips below may decrease your risk of botulism. "

https://health.alaska.gov/dph/Epi/id/SiteAssets/Pages/Botulism/BotulismFactSheet.pdf

 

[pjzwtl]

It is often referred to as spores or toxin but the spores produce the toxin which is what will fuck you up. But hey if you want to pretend something doesn’t exist or isn’t a danger that’s a you problem just don’t take anyone with you.

 

[spat]

It is often referred to as spores or toxin but the spores produce the toxin which is what will fuck you up. But hey if you want to pretend something doesn’t exist or isn’t a danger that’s a you problem just don’t take anyone with you.

The spores produce the bacteria, once the right conditions are met. Spores are basically bacteria (or fungi) eggs. The bacteria produce the toxin, slowly, but it builds up.

The bacteria grow in the can after all the competition is killed off. That's why you don't get botulism from ordinary spoiled neat. The botulinum never gets a foot hold because there are bacteria that are way better at growing in a slice of ham sitting in a refrigerator.

But, the improperly canned food kills off all the bacteria, but not quite all the spores. So once they "hatch" they have an ideal environment to grow.

The bacteria produce the toxin, and it just collects in the can until it's at a dangerous level.

It's a lot like the plants that emerge right after a forest fire. They couldn't grow there before because the trees blocked all the light. But after the fire, they are better positioned to grow.

This is also why you shouldn't feed newborb babies honey. Their digestive system doesn't have the "good" bacteria in it yet. But the honey does have some botulinum spores.

In the environment inside the babies gut the spores will "hatch" and produce enough toxin to threaten the babies health.

Once they're eating real food, they have plenty of other bacteria in their gut and the botulinum can't ever get a foothold.

 

[Jmac00]

I need my grandmother, shes been dead for nearly 50 years, but she canned everything. Granddad was a bee keeper.

Between them, they rarely went to the grocery store. But that was back in the old days when milk was delivered to your door. Gramp's traded a jar of honey for milk.

They had a couple acres vegetable garden, Rabbits and chickens and a 12 tree apple orchard. They had grapes and raspberries.

Damn, I can still smell grandma's pantry.........wonderful smells. This brings back great memories.

But, living in a RV has some major draw backs, like storing food.

 

[spat]

I need my grandmother, shes been dead for nearly 50 years, but she canned everything. Granddad was a bee keeper.

Between them, they rarely went to the grocery store. But that was back in the old days when milk was delivered to your door. Gramp's traded a jar of honey for milk.

They had a couple acres vegetable garden, Rabbits and chickens and a 12 tree apple orchard. They had grapes and raspberries.

Damn, I can still smell grandma's pantry.........wonderful smells. This brings back great memories.

But, living in a RV has some major draw backs, like storing food.

Yea, you have easy mobility to get the hell out of dodge at the first sign if trouble (people with houses tend to stay put long after they should have left).

But, you do sacrifice the ability to be completely self sufficient for long periods of time.

 

[GOPerfect]

This is one of the pressure canners that we bought. Does 7 quarts at a time. Plenty for what we need.

Nowhere near the $400 for the better ones like the All_American.

I learn a lot from YouTube, but when it comes to health, I will err on the healthy side.

https://www.amazon.com/Presto-1755-16-Quart-Aluminum-Pressure/dp/B000QJJ9NY/ref=sr_1_15?crid=NT72VWHJ0POF&keywords=pressure+canner&qid=1697405182&sprefix=pressure+canner%2Caps%2C104&sr=8-15

 

[Acer-m14]

The spores produce the bacteria, once the right conditions are met. Spores are basically bacteria (or fungi) eggs. The bacteria produce the toxin, slowly, but it builds up.

The bacteria grow in the can after all the competition is killed off. That's why you don't get botulism from ordinary spoiled neat. The botulinum never gets a foot hold because there are bacteria that are way better at growing in a slice of ham sitting in a refrigerator.

But, the improperly canned food kills off all the bacteria, but not quite all the spores. So once they "hatch" they have an ideal environment to grow.

The bacteria produce the toxin, and it just collects in the can until it's at a dangerous level.

It's a lot like the plants that emerge right after a forest fire. They couldn't grow there before because the trees blocked all the light. But after the fire, they are better positioned to grow.

This is also why you shouldn't feed newborb babies honey. Their digestive system doesn't have the "good" bacteria in it yet. But the honey does have some botulinum spores.

In the environment inside the babies gut the spores will "hatch" and produce enough toxin to threaten the babies health.

Once they're eating real food, they have plenty of other bacteria in their gut and the botulinum can't ever get a foothold.

It is often referred to as spores or toxin but the spores produce the toxin which is what will fuck you up. But hey if you want to pretend something doesn’t exist or isn’t a danger that’s a you problem just don’t take anyone with you.

so from the PDF cooking and boiling kills the toxin/spores .. So do not eat it right from the canned jar .. cook it

then other places say you need 240F to kill it ..

just saying what i have been finding out going down the canning rabbit hole ..


coming Thursday in the mail ..

 

[spat]

so from the PDF cooking and boiling kills the toxin/spores .. So do not eat it right from the canned jar .. cook it

then other places say you need 240F to kill it ..

just saying what i have been finding out going down the canning rabbit hole ..


coming Thursday in the mail ..

View attachment 212364

There are 3 different things involved in the process. The spores, the bacteria, and the toxin. Only the toxin is dangerous.

The spores themselves aren't toxic, and they're ubiquitous. They're basically on everything around you. It's virtually guaranteed you'll end up with some in the stuff you can, no matter how much cleaning and washing you do.

The spores are very difficult to kill, they need very high Temps to do it.

The spores will "hatch" onto the bacteria (botulinum) if the conditions are right. The bacteria is also not directly harmful. If there aren't other bacteria around to keep them in check, then the botulinum bacteria will grow and reproduce.

The bacteria will produce the toxin as a byproduct (like the way yeast makes alcohol).

So, think of it like making alcohol. You put some fruit in the right environment and eventually it'll be turn into something that can get you drunk. The yeast doesn't get you drunk, it just makes the alcohol that does.

The spores are just an add on compared to the yeast, another stage that is very durable. You can kill off all the bacteria in the can at lower temperatures. But you won't kill the spores (that's the purpose of spores, they're like a survival bunker for bacteria).

But, the spores mean that if you can at say 212, you will kill all the bacteria, and then when it cools down and the spores "hatch", then there is a clean slate for the botulinum bacteria to run rampant, because all the other bacteria was killed.

So, 212 will kill the bacteria, and it's sufficient to denatured the toxin (it's not alive, so you can't kill it, but high Temps will chemically alter it into something less nasty). But the spores can survive 212, and you need at least 240 to kill them.

 

[pjzwtl]

so from the PDF cooking and boiling kills the toxin/spores .. So do not eat it right from the canned jar .. cook it

then other places say you need 240F to kill it ..

just saying what i have been finding out going down the canning rabbit hole ..


coming Thursday in the mail ..

View attachment 212364

Just be safe that’s all we’re trying to say. BTW you will like that book some good recipes in it.
Here are some times tested free recipes:
https://www.ballmasonjars.com/recipes?fdid=recipes

National Center for Home Food Preservation

 

[Acer-m14]

yeah i know . just pointing out in my way how words have meanings

"How can botulism be prevented? Only cooking or boiling food destroys botulinum toxin.

it does and does not if you still have the magic pores still there ..


can i can them magic mushrooms

 

[spat]

yeah i know . just pointing out in my way how words have meanings




it does and does not if you still have the magic pores still there ..


can i can them magic mushrooms

But, the spores themselves aren't dangerous.

Unless you have a nearly sterile gut like a newborn infant.

 

[Acer-m14]

But, the spores themselves aren't dangerous.

Unless you have a nearly sterile gut like a newborn infant.

i have heard that infants cannot have honey ..

because it may have botulism in it