U.S. House of Reps. votes 226-194 to criminalize disassembling, cleaning, and re-assembling your gun without a firearm manufacturer’s license!

[spat]

Nothing in this law applies to guns that already have a legally accepted serial.

Where does it say that ?

 

[spat]

“(B) For purposes of subparagraph (A)(i), if a weapon with more than 1 part that provides the housing or a structure designed to hold or integrate 1 or more fire control or essential components, each such part shall be considered a frame or receiver, unless the Attorney General has provided otherwise by regulation or other formal determination with respect to the specific make and model of weapon on or before January 1, 2023.”.

It's also in the atf statement(s) with regard to receivers.
What has already been ruled 1 serialized piece stays that way.

I'm sure, the Letitia James can be completely trusted with that sort of discretion. She would never abuse it.

 

[kzin]

Where does it say that ?

general answer -
It never says anything else.
It's titled untraceable firearms
The section header is untraceable firearms.
The fix is requiring serials.
Everything else is details, exceptions and examples,
Every single word, start to finish, is in the context of banning unserialized guns.
Ripping three words out of clear context is just ignorant.

 

[kzin]

Where does it say that ?

specific answer -
In the entire 3 screens of the law only one line establishes a new crime:
“(aa) (1) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, or receive a ghost gun in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce.

A ghost gun is defined as unserialized:
“(A) means a firearm, including a frame or receiver, that lacks a unique serial number engraved or cast on the frame or receiver by a licensed manufacturer or importer in accordance with this chapter; and

Therefore the incorrect interpretation of the definition of manufacturing proposed still doesn't even matter.
If you have a serialized receiver, what you're 'assembling' is absolutely not a ghost gun and there is no crime.

As much as we hate and distrust gun banners the law does make more sense than the absurd idea that re-assembling a legal gun is becoming a crime.

 

[spat]

general answer -
It never says anything else.
It's titled untraceable firearms
The section header is untraceable firearms.
The fix is requiring serials.
Everything else is details, exceptions and examples,
Every single word, start to finish, is in the context of banning unserialized guns.
Ripping three words out of clear context is just ignorant.

You don't know much about the history of the ATF or NYSP enforcement do you.

Are you familiar at all with their SBS/SBR rules ? That you can take 2 mechanically identical shotguns and one is an illegal unregistered short barreled shotgun, and the other is a perfectly legal Shockwave depending on whether it was originally attached to a stock or not ?

Do you know you could be wearing 2 machineguns right now ?

Shoestring Machine Gun – Everyday No Days Off

The list of abuses is very long, and it is almost inevitable that this law will eventually be enforced exactly the way we are warning it will.

The fact that it clearly was intended to only affect the manufactur of *new* guns is irrelevant unless it specifically *says* it only applies to new ones.

How long do you really think it's going to take for some overzealous, ideologically driven DA to twist this any way he can just to railroad some poor guy just because the DA thinks all gun owners are guilty of something.

 

[kzin]

I'm sure, the Letitia James can be completely trusted with that sort of discretion. She would never abuse it.

James is irrelevant to federal law.
There is no discretion for current guns,
Guns that are currently being sold and re-sold are locked into the current 1 piece serialization. Period,

For new rulings, sure, I'll be they make multiple pieces serializable for any excuse at all.

 

[Steal2B]

general answer -
It never says anything else.
It's titled untraceable firearms
The section header is untraceable firearms.
The fix is requiring serials.
Everything else is details, exceptions and examples,
Every single word, start to finish, is in the context of banning unserialized guns.
Ripping three words out of clear context is just ignorant.

Not sure anyone ripped words out of context.

There are some that logically see language in the bill which likely in fact does what Biden said he was having done in his second week of April Gun Control speech.

To deny that the bill was configured to cover what Biden ordered to have done by bill or regulation, may be a better potential example of head in the sand ignorance.

Hopefully the Senate ensures this chickenshit argument does not matter.

 

[spat]

specific answer -
In the entire 3 screens of the law only one line establishes a new crime:
“(aa) (1) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, or receive a ghost gun in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce.

A ghost gun is defined as unserialized:
“(A) means a firearm, including a frame or receiver, that lacks a unique serial number engraved or cast on the frame or receiver by a licensed manufacturer or importer in accordance with this chapter; and

Therefore the incorrect interpretation of the definition of manufacturing proposed still doesn't even matter.
If you have a serialized receiver, what you're 'assembling' is absolutely not a ghost gun and there is no crime.

As much as we hate and distrust gun banners the law does make more sense than the absurd idea that re-assembling a legal gun is becoming a crime.

That may be the only *new* crime it creates, but it also changes the definition of manufacturing that applies to pre-existing crimes.

You aren't illegally manufacturing a ghost gun, because you already have a serialized receiver.

You are illegally manufacturing a regular gum.


Also, for ARs for instance, since your upper receiver isn't serialized, and it contains fire control components, you *are* manufacturing a ghost gun at one stage in the assembly process.

 

[Steal2B]

Senate announces bipartisan framework for gun control package

A bipartisan group of senators announced an agreement for gun control following the devastating Uvalde shooting in Texas. The senators include John Cornyn and Kyrsten Sinema.

www.foxnews.com

 

[kzin]

You don't know much about the history of the ATF or NYSP enforcement do you.

Are you familiar at all with their SBS/SBR rules ? That you can take 2 mechanically identical shotguns and one is an illegal unregistered short barreled shotgun, and the other is a perfectly legal Shockwave depending on whether it was originally attached to a stock or not ?

Do you know you could be wearing 2 machineguns right now ?

Shoestring Machine Gun – Everyday No Days Off

The list of abuses is very long, and it is almost inevitable that this law will eventually be enforced exactly the way we are warning it will.

The fact that it clearly was intended to only affect the manufactur of *new* guns is irrelevant unless it specifically *says* it only applies to new ones.

How long do you really think it's going to take for some overzealous, ideologically driven DA to twist this any way he can just to railroad some poor guy just because the DA thinks all gun owners are guilty of something.

By that argument it makes no difference at all what the law(s) say or don't say.
The bad guys will simply interpret anything to say anything they want.
Anything you choose to make up is legitimate because they might decide to do the same.

Even to the extent that may be true it has to be of some value to start out understanding what the law actually says.

 

[spat]

By that argument it makes no difference at all what the law(s) say or don't say.
The bad guys will simply interpret anything to say anything they want.
Anything you choose to make up is legitimate because they might decide to do the same.

Even to the extent that may be true it has to be of some value to start out understanding what the law actually says.

I will just respond with a quote from the late great justice Scalia.

This was addressed to other SCOTUS justices. If you don't think the DAs and ATF agents go miles past this, you're living in denial.

"What is a moderate interpretation of the text? Halfway between what it really means and what you'd like it to mean?

Antonin Scalia"

 

[kzin]

That may be the only *new* crime it creates, but it also changes the definition of manufacturing that applies to pre-existing crimes.

You aren't illegally manufacturing a ghost gun, because you already have a serialized receiver.

You are illegally manufacturing a regular gum.


Also, for ARs for instance, since your upper receiver isn't serialized, and it contains fire control components, you *are* manufacturing a ghost gun at one stage in the assembly process.

Now you're supporting incorrect conclusions with incorrect assumptions.

You're right that existing crimes could be affected by the extended definition.(if your interpretation was correct)
What are they, specifically?

No, AR uppers are not going to require serialization because they have already been ruled on.
In the ATF document they were specifically mentioned as something that would require multiple serials under the new guidelines but won't because they are 'grandfathered'.

 

[spat]

Now you're supporting incorrect conclusions with incorrect assumptions.

You're right that existing crimes could be affected by the extended definition.(if your interpretation was correct)
What are they, specifically?

No, AR uppers are not going to require serialization because they have already been ruled on.
In the ATF document they were specifically mentioned as something that would require multiple serials under the new guidelines but won't because they are 'grandfathered'.

Such ATF guidance is as reliable as an extended warranty from a Nigerian prince.

I lost count of how many times they have changed their interpretation of a law to our detriment.

Remember the bump stock fiasco ?

Binary triggers ?

IMHO, if their interpretation ever changes, that is incontrovertible evidence that the law they are interpreting was unconstitutionally vague and should be nullified.

If the federal agency charged with enforcing a law is waffling about what it means, how can it possibly give the public the required notice about what is actually prohibited.

But, unfortunately that is not how the courts see it.

So, all new gun laws should be viewed in the light of what the next Eric Holder will twist them into, not what they actually appear to mean.

And the ATF assurance that "this doesn't apply to AR's" isn't worth the paper it's written on.

How long do you think it will take some Sarah Brady hanger on to sue the ATF saying it's illegal for then to exempt ARs ? How vigorously would you expect them to defend that POS.

 

[kzin]

I will just respond with a quote from the late great justice Scalia.

This was addressed to other SCOTUS justices. If you don't think the DAs and ATF agents go miles past this, you're living in denial.

"What is a moderate interpretation of the text? Halfway between what it really means and what you'd like it to mean?

Antonin Scalia"

Insult me all you want.
Nobody is ever getting charged with a crime for reassembling an otherwise perfectly legal gun.
It's not what this law says.
It's not how it will be interpreted.
They will never write a law saying that.

 

[spat]

Insult me all you want.
Nobody is ever getting charged with a crime for reassembling an otherwise perfectly legal gun.
It's not what this law says.
It's not how it will be interpreted.
They will never write a law saying that.

Nobody and ever is a long time.

 

[kzin]

Not sure anyone ripped words out of context.

There are some that logically see language in the bill which likely in fact does what Biden said he was having done in his second week of April Gun Control speech.

To deny that the bill was configured to cover what Biden ordered to have done by bill or regulation, may be a better potential example of head in the sand ignorance.

Hopefully the Senate ensures this chickenshit argument does not matter.

Biden said he wanted to make it illegal to reassemble a legal gun?

 

[Steal2B]

Biden said he wanted to make it illegal to reassemble a legal gun?

Go watch the speech.

 

[kzin]

Go watch the speech.

Absolutely not gonna happen.
I read a few reports on it and saw nothing relevant to this thread.

 

[holdover]

That is the pitch this is being sold under.

The desired goal is for nobody to be allowed to have a gun at all except for the government.

The reality for this bill is somewhere in the middle.

Ill go one further, it could give them legal ability to seize your weapons.

 

[kzin]

Go watch the speech.

Found a transcript
"Codifying my ban on ghost guns that don’t have serial numbers and can’t be traced"

Exactly what I've said multiple times this law would do,
Nothing supporting the total garbage in the thread title.

 

[Phazer]

Go watch the speech.

Sorry. Nobody can figure out what Biden means when he speaks because even Biden doesn't understand what he's saying.

 

[kzin]

Sorry. Nobody can figure out what Biden means when he speaks because even Biden doesn't understand what he's saying.

His handlers just hope he can read the same words in the same order as what's on the prompter.

 

[Acer-m14]

hows the ATF and Forced Reset Triggers case going .. ??

 

[spat]

Found a transcript
"Codifying my ban on ghost guns that don’t have serial numbers and can’t be traced"

Exactly what I've said multiple times this law would do,
Nothing supporting the total garbage in the thread title.

They claim to support the 2A in their speeches too. That doesn't mean that's what their legislation is intended to do.

I bet you think red flag laws will only be used on crazies too.

 

[Steal2B]

Sorry. Nobody can figure out what Biden means when he speaks because even Biden doesn't understand what he's saying.

Seems like after a couple weeks of secluded prep for this speech and whatever chemical support his handlers used, he read the transcript released from his press office. The serialization of uppers and slides as well as limiting assembly to only the federally licensed were included in the dribble.

Based on the assholes pulling the strings, It would not suprise me anymore that the scripted words on his Teleprompter are as senseless as the utterances from Brandon's twisted forked tongue.

 

[kzin]

They claim to support the 2A in their speeches too. That doesn't mean that's what their legislation is intended to do.

I bet you think red flag laws will only be used on crazies too.

The argument was made TO me that what biden said somehow supported the idea of this being a ban on cleaning guns.
I don't understand it either.

 

[Beerman]

Fact Check: House Did NOT Vote to Criminalize Disassembling, Cleaning And Reassembling Your Gun | Lead Stories

 

[kzin]

Let me provide the paranoid crew response in advance.
These fact checkers are really all liberal liars.
Therefore we now know even more certainly than before that this bill really would criminalize cleaning your gun.

 

[Paperpunch]

Here's an idea. Don't leave your disassembled firearm just lying around.

 

[spat]

The argument was made TO me that what biden said somehow supported the idea of this being a ban on cleaning guns.
I don't understand it either.

Nothing that comes out of Biden's mouth means anything.

At best it's intended as a distraction from the disaster of the week club that his administration has become.

There is no meaning to be derived from any of it though.