Done.
Gofundme for Article 78 - Broome County
- Thread starter OwnTheRide
- Start date
Slacker43
.40 S&W
I am certainly willing to donate to this. I have too many questions about it all to at this point though. Apalachin is certainly not Broome county, the line is near En-Joy golf course. I don't understand the tie with a Tioga resident and a Broome County judge. I have friends in Tioga, actually in Apalachin that have permits from the Tioga county judge. Something doesn't add up about this. I get that he defended himself and that is their reason for denial. That should not stop him and I agree that we have been screwed for too long. I just cannot throw money at someone when the full story is not clearly articulated here. The video was done for dramatic effect. Who is he suing, Broome or Tioga? Or NYS? This is way too messy on the surface to trust any of it for me. I live in Broome so I understand how things work here. I am an FFL so I also have a more in-depth understanding of the entire environment. I have a carry permit issued after sandyhook (early 2013) so I uderstand the current climate very well in our area and in NYS.
OwnTheRide
.223 Rem
That's a good question, @Slacker43, and it's one others have had as well. I sent a note to Jack to see if he can clarify for us.
Slacker43
.40 S&W
I appreciate that. I have become skeptical of society today. Everyone seems to be looking for something. I have been reading this thread and thinking about it every day. It just feels off to me like we aren't getting the whole story here. If at this stage they cannot clearly articulate their reasoning and evidence what chance do they have of ever winning a court battle? They will be fighting people with unlimited funding who can literally drag it out so long that you go broke. You have to have people with their shit together to pull anything off against the government. Our business has a very good lawyer who is very well versed in the 2A. He is the only one I would be talking to in a matter like this. Yes, affording it is another matter that I would need help with. Unlike this situation I can tell you completely up front that I have no priors, no charges, not even traffic tickets in NYS in the last 15 years minimum.
The video at the top suggested that this guy was completely clean and then you find out that he has used deadly force and was charged with it. That rubs me wrong and makes me very skeptical of the whole story. The county discrepancy just adds to the doubt. The Cawley portion of the video also doesn't make sense as everything I know of this judge was helpful to our cause. I have not heard of any other judges handling the permits but I am not deep in that anymore so that may be correct. A family court judge seems an odd choice in processing permits though. The video being dramatic does not sway me in any way. I tend to always look for the bullshit and I am usually right in my skepticism.
All this said, I hope that I am wrong and that they have a case here. I hope whoever he gets to represent him makes sure that all of the steps are taken in the correct order to insure that he has done everything he could legally to right this wrong and a suit is the last resort. If everything is not in order this case will not even see the inside of a courtroom.
ETA
I did find his Facebook and go fund me page. He states his reasoning behind the county discrepancy. I can buy it to a point. Looking at his Facebook page I begin to alter my opinion (hate if you want to but here it is). The old adage of "don't judge a book by its cover" has never sat well with me. The cover usually gives you a good look at what the book is about........ I would guess that the judge recused himself because there are other things in his past that would have made the judge leery at the time to give him a permit (which I do agree is sketchy 2A). The self defense case would always be the main thing used in fighting the refusal whether it was or not. Just the pictures on his Facebook showing the antics of the gun buyback show a glimpse of his character. I get the rebellion but it is childish for a free lunch. It is not a serious fight against the man. The comments reading back down his page are that of a person who just wants a fight. This is another peek into his character.
I have way too many reservations to backing this person at this time. I see this as a lost cause and there are better places to spend money than this. Sorry if any of you feel like I'm being a dick but that's how I see it.
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OwnTheRide
.223 Rem
I have no issues at all with you voicing your concerns/objections here, @Slacker43. Some points I'd like to comment on are below. Quick disclaimer, I don't know Jack Strickland at all.
In other words, Jack is not the perfect plaintiff... which, in my mind, makes him the perfect plaintiff.
I honestly appreciate your research and willingness to share your opinions on the matter.
- I have not heard back from Jack, but the recusal explanation for the county discrepancy makes sense to me, as well as why this ended up going to Young instead of Cawley.
- I certainly noted the prior self-defense shooting. In my opinion, that makes it more important to support. I cannot accept that exercising our rights is a reasonable excuse for the state to deny them. I'm guessing the licensing officers feel this is a sufficient reason to deny in a post-Bruen world. I say bullshit. It relates to another peeve of mine, using arrests without convictions as a reason to deny. I myself was denied a permit on my initial application for failing to disclose an arrest (without conviction) as a minor that I didn't know was an arrest... I was given a ticket and sent home on the school bus. My overall position here is that if one is not a prohibited person, then there is no reasonable cause to deny their application for a pistol permit - and a person with a self defense shooting on their record is a great way to make this very clear.
- Jack does come across as angry/looking for a fight. I can relate from personal experience. It is incredibly aggravating to have your rights withheld from you, or to see government officials violating the law. I recognize that being a calm, cool, and collected individual makes for a better appearance. But, at the same time, I don't think anyone should have to curtail their 1A activities in the hopes that they might be given permission to exercise their 2A rights.
In other words, Jack is not the perfect plaintiff... which, in my mind, makes him the perfect plaintiff.
I honestly appreciate your research and willingness to share your opinions on the matter.
Slacker43
.40 S&W
I think we're on the same page. Like you some of the goings on would definitely be interesting to see in the courts. I just fear that certain cases can do more harm than good. This one is on the fence for me.
I totally agree that your rights should be almost impossible to lose. I believe even a felony conviction shouldn't bar you after you have paid your debts to society. Violent felonies are my only hangup there.
I think the only difference we have is this guy being a good case. I will definitely have to see much more about this entire situation to get behind him.
I have become over analytical in my older (45) age. I look into everything much further than most. It drives my wife nuts. It had made me who I am though. I am the kind that will give my opinion only once I have a good grasp on a topic and have given it a lot of thought. That's why you won't see a high post count by my name and long winded responses. I'm sure most skip these long ones but it takes some space to share my thoughts on the simplest of topics.
As always it is appreciated to have a level headed conversation. I wasn't sure how this was going to go on here.
I totally agree that your rights should be almost impossible to lose. I believe even a felony conviction shouldn't bar you after you have paid your debts to society. Violent felonies are my only hangup there.
I think the only difference we have is this guy being a good case. I will definitely have to see much more about this entire situation to get behind him.
I have become over analytical in my older (45) age. I look into everything much further than most. It drives my wife nuts. It had made me who I am though. I am the kind that will give my opinion only once I have a good grasp on a topic and have given it a lot of thought. That's why you won't see a high post count by my name and long winded responses. I'm sure most skip these long ones but it takes some space to share my thoughts on the simplest of topics.
As always it is appreciated to have a level headed conversation. I wasn't sure how this was going to go on here.
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
I too went through more than a decade of Jack's social media posts, and have come to an opinion that the polished video posted on this thread does not fully represent the "whole story". Jack is probably not a candidate as a poster child for pro bono representation, or as a pro 2A organization's test case.
I strongly believe that a justified use of a legally owned firearm to protect one's life should not have any bearing on securing a concealed carry permit. I am not sure that is purely the issue with Jack's case. I will, however, still toss a few bucks anonymously to the Go Fund Me effort, but mostly to encourage the passion expressed by the fine members of this forum. But ....
I am suspicious and pretty certain that Jack's multiple application denials were not really based on Jack's dropped felony charges.
I lived in Apalachin for several years (I personally do not know [or at least remember meeting] Jack, the three judges, the ADA, or the investigator mentioned in the video) and there are easily hundreds of people (maybe just counting my relatives ... lol) who hold permits that were issued through these judges and investegators. Most here on this forum might even consider these judges and investigators to be pro 2A (especially compared to the clowns running the permitting process in NYC, Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, and most upstate blue counties).
It would not be surprising if Jack's permit review process (and subsequent denials) involved discussions between previously involved judges / investegators / prosecuters so a handful of Jack's aberrant behaviors over the years contributed to stakeholders being uncomfortable signing their name.
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OwnTheRide
.223 Rem
Jack updated the gofundme page with an explanation for why a Broome County judge was handling his application:
That makes a lot of sense to me.
That makes a lot of sense to me.
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
This update strengthens my opinion that there is more going on that what is portrayed in the polished video on this thread.
I have met Gerry Keene several times spanning decades since his youth and know some of his relatives very well. Gerry strikes me as honest, and I have first hand knowledge he believes in the second amendment. If felony charges were developed against Jack, and Gerry was involved in the process, I can not believe it was a clear cut self defense case as portrayed in the video.
My only personal criticism I can make about Gerry as a DA is that he may have a blindspot trusting investegstors or law enforcement too much when they confidently press their case.
Slacker43
.40 S&W
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has doubts about this. I was sticking my neck out saying what I did. I hate doubting people on our side but something just doesn't sit right with me. I'm very pro 2A but I'm also very pro respect. I have a hunch that this guy has made things worse for himself over the years and been on many people's radar. You do have 1A rights but your words and actions have consequences.
OwnTheRide
.223 Rem
OwnTheRide
.223 Rem
Sure... from private entities. The primary point of the first amendment is that the government can't deprive a person of their rights for speaking their mind. Which - if your suspicions are correct - would be precisely what is happening here.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
you have bad morals because you speak your mind or drive over the speed limit many time ..
Breaking: NYC's "Good Moral Character" Clause For Gun Ownership Ruled Unconstitutional
Slacker43
.40 S&W
Go to any government agency and run your mouth. Things will be more difficult. Go to a restaurant and run your mouth. Government or not, it's human nature to tell an asshole to pound sand. How did he carry himself during the arrest? In hearings? Picking up his guns? Look at his big Facebook background picture.....
Not saying he won't or shouldn't be successful in this. I'm saying he has probably made it harder on himself. Respect takes way less energy and isn't that hard. Even when you're getting fucked, remain calm and figure out how to fuck them harder with a smile.
Not saying he won't or shouldn't be successful in this. I'm saying he has probably made it harder on himself. Respect takes way less energy and isn't that hard. Even when you're getting fucked, remain calm and figure out how to fuck them harder with a smile.
No question. He may well be a bit of an asshole. And he has made it harder for himself. BUT,... we can't all be the absolute perfect plaintiff. And as someone who has been fucked with by entitled bureaucrats (and to be clear, I am referring to certain clerks, not judges) when I was 100% in the right, I have no problem with trying to help him.
Slacker43
.40 S&W
You are certainly correct. This is why I am on the fence with my thoughts. I have been fortunate in my life to not wind up in these situations where people could fuck with me. I always made an effort to keep myself clean of most things while still doing everything I feel is right. Maybe I have sheltered myself in some ways while doing this and developed my own sense of what a good person is.
I am trying to keep an open mind with this guy. I do see that even with my outlook on who he may be he actually may be the perfect plaintiff. No one should be kept from our rights unless convicted of harm to others. Even then if you pay your debts to society and were deemed ok to be released from prison you should at least have a chance of getting your life back 100%. If this guy is ruled to be ok to have a permit then everyone at or above his level has a case for having one. I would argue that after his shooting incident he would have more reason to carry being the guy is still roaming the earth.