How are "ghost guns" made legitimate?

FP1201

FP1201

.338 Win Mag
Messages
7,345
Reaction score
12,118
Location
Adams, NY
How would someone who made a frame/receiver before the "ban" stay in compliance? (presuming that they did not make an "AW" are Handguns easier? the same? harder?...IDK)
I never bothered with them, because I could order in a fully finished Lower for less money that getting one that needed to be Milled, but someone asked me the other day how or if I knew of someone that could.
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
37,605
Reaction score
41,947
Location
Western NY
If I remember correctly they need to be taken to an FFL, a serial number assigned and a background check/4473 like buying a new firearm. I’m not sure on the amnesty period but it might have passed. He might be able to ship it to another state and have it brought in under this process but I’m not sure an FFL will want to mess with it.
 
M

ManualF150

.308 Win
Messages
4,836
Reaction score
8,835
Location
Cayuga
I am itching to make my own 1911-style gun. I don't have all of the machining yet, but I'm hoping to in the coming years.

What I want to also do is make my own custom caliber from existing brass and do some scientific experimentation.

But I also don't want to turn into a ghost gun owner either to turn into felon either.
 
dsdmmat

dsdmmat

Donut Master
Moderator
Messages
11,609
Reaction score
26,469
Location
Alpha Quadrant, Sector 001
pistols in PRNY will be a little more difficult than rifles these days. I used to just go register SNs on my license then go make them. Luckily I can still do that since I don’t live in the PRNY. I just send them an email they send me the paperwork I fill it out send the paperwork with the fee and my cards. I get new ones in the mail about two weeks later.

ATF marking only requires:

Name of manufacturer, town and state, SN

DSDMMAT Faye, NC DSDM2024

Caliber 4.
 
FP1201

FP1201

.338 Win Mag
Messages
7,345
Reaction score
12,118
Location
Adams, NY
ManualF150 said:
I am itching to make my own 1911-style gun. I don't have all of the machining yet, but I'm hoping to in the coming years.

What I want to also do is make my own custom caliber from existing brass and do some scientific experimentation.

But I also don't want to turn into a ghost gun owner either to turn into felon either.
Click to expand...
Several years back at Knob Creek there were Dealers selling aluminum 80% 1911 Frames with Jigs and tooling to complete them...watched a video they were playing in a loop and it seemed easy enough, while I don't remember the cost of the stuff, I think it was around $200. They might have had steel frames as well...I wasn't buying, so I didn't get too wrapped up in it.
On a slight tangent: in the Philippines they literally pound out 1911's on rocks from scrap metal salvage from who knows where.
 
FP1201

FP1201

.338 Win Mag
Messages
7,345
Reaction score
12,118
Location
Adams, NY
Saltwater60 said:
If I remember correctly they need to be taken to an FFL, a serial number assigned and a background check/4473 like buying a new firearm. I’m not sure on the amnesty period but it might have passed. He might be able to ship it to another state and have it brought in under this process but I’m not sure an FFL will want to mess with it.
Click to expand...
I thought it had to be a Licensed Gun Smith (same process and essentially the same as a NY Handgun Dealer) maybe either could do it.
 
spat

spat

.950 JDJ
Messages
31,003
Reaction score
65,780
Location
Formerly Geneseo, NY. Now free in AZ
FP1201 said:
How would someone who made a frame/receiver before the "ban" stay in compliance? (presuming that they did not make an "AW" are Handguns easier? the same? harder?...IDK)
I never bothered with them, because I could order in a fully finished Lower for less money that getting one that needed to be Milled, but someone asked me the other day how or if I knew of someone that could.
Click to expand...
Well, my solution was to just GTFONY and not look back.

So far that was an excellent way to deal with my 80%s
 
spat

spat

.950 JDJ
Messages
31,003
Reaction score
65,780
Location
Formerly Geneseo, NY. Now free in AZ
FP1201 said:
Several years back at Knob Creek there were Dealers selling aluminum 80% 1911 Frames with Jigs and tooling to complete them...watched a video they were playing in a loop and it seemed easy enough, while I don't remember the cost of the stuff, I think it was around $200. They might have had steel frames as well...I wasn't buying, so I didn't get too wrapped up in it.
On a slight tangent: in the Philippines they literally pound out 1911's on rocks from scrap metal salvage from who knows where.
Click to expand...
In Pakistan they fold up AK receivers out of shovels.

Building one from a kit seems so easy it's like cheating.

You can order 80% blanks and jigs for ARs, AKs, Glocks, and 1911s from several manufacturers.
 
spat

spat

.950 JDJ
Messages
31,003
Reaction score
65,780
Location
Formerly Geneseo, NY. Now free in AZ
Saltwater60 said:
You could be right about it being a gunsmith. Good thing most gunsmiths are FFLs.
Click to expand...
All gunsmiths are FFLs. It's a different class if FFL than a retailer, but it still requires an FFL.

The only way to legally gunsmith without one would be to do it without the original owner leaving (so that there is no change of possession), and even that is questionable.
 
Acer-m14

Acer-m14

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
35,983
Reaction score
38,599
Location
Livingston
is there even a process to add the serial # the FFL stamped into your long gun to the NYS system ??

i bet not with out going through a NYS back ground check again and paying .

:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
 
kev74

kev74

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
49,982
Reaction score
158,152
Location
Orange Co.
dsdmmat said:
BTW you are using that term wrong. Home made firearms are often wrongly called ghost guns.

Ghost guns are those which have had their SN removed by a criminal element of society or one of the 3 letter agencies of the federal government.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, with the commies definitions are fluid and always changing. They call anything they don't like a ghost gun.
 
FP1201

FP1201

.338 Win Mag
Messages
7,345
Reaction score
12,118
Location
Adams, NY
dsdmmat said:
BTW you are using that term wrong. Home made firearms are often wrongly called ghost guns.

Ghost guns are those which have had their SN removed by a criminal element of society or one of the 3 letter agencies of the federal government.
Click to expand...
It would seem the Law Enforcement Agencies didn't get the memo: They are treating and labeling "Home Made" (ostensibly finished 80% frames/receivers) as "Ghost Guns", which of course never had any serial number from the start, not "Defaced" from which the Factory number was obliterated, additionally SCOTUS ruled against the prohibition of defaced serial numbered guns. (or so I thought, but NY cares not about SCOTUS opinions)

Ran into this a decade ago: M1 Garand, obviously made between 1938 and 1954 (pre-dates ATF Numbering requirements) that had the receiver heel stick welded over the SN#...what do you do? It's obviously been defaced, but was never required to have one in the first place: Is this a "NSN" gun or GCA violation?

To obtain either a "Gunsmith" Licenses, and/or "Dealers" License in Firearms (Handguns, then added Long Guns) the applicant must hold a Valid Federal Firearms Licenses (don't think 03 will squeak by either) before applying, and the same application as must be processed.
There ARE FFL's without NYS Dealer Licenses operating under Federal Law, and I'd imagine there are Gunsmiths as well, and just like auto mechanics, there are those practicing without ASE Certification...I doubt any of the "gunsmiths" that worked at Remington had any credentials outside of their own Pistol Permits if they even had that...Probably another reason why Handgun and AR-15 production was moved from NY to AL the first time.
 
J

JRtraderny

.308 Win
Messages
2,768
Reaction score
1,615
Location
USA
FP1201 said:
How would someone who made a frame/receiver before the "ban" stay in compliance? (presuming that they did not make an "AW" are Handguns easier? the same? harder?...IDK)
I never bothered with them, because I could order in a fully finished Lower for less money that getting one that needed to be Milled, but someone asked me the other day how or if I knew of someone that could.
Click to expand...
Ghostbusters come to mind .
 
pshift

pshift

.338 Win Mag
Messages
9,310
Reaction score
27,432
Location
90210
The particle accelerator also has a threaded barrel, which makes it illegal in NY as well...
 
Brawny71

Brawny71

.44 mag
Messages
804
Reaction score
1,040
Location
Jefferson County
If you assemble the lower and upper, keep them apart, then bring the two parts to a Gunsmith (You can also just bring the lower to have it serialed depending on the FFL), they can assist in having them etched by ATF standards with a serial number. The Gunsmith (Class 7) can then list it as a produced/ manufactured firearm and place it on their report. Then they can do your background check, hand you a receipt, you put it on your permit, come back with your coupon and claim your firearm.

If you have a firearm that is serialed but not registered in NYS (In some cases they are being called Ghost Guns; wrongly); some counties have assisted in allowing you to come to the county Sheriff and turn it in for an FFl to pick up (paper trail), FFL does the paperwork part of above but without all the manufacturing stuff. If you are not in one of these counties (Many have started doing this to assist folks Snowbirding and coming home with handguns), then you have to find an out of state FFL who will ship it to a NYS FFL
 
M

ManualF150

.308 Win
Messages
4,836
Reaction score
8,835
Location
Cayuga
Still blows my mind that it is illegal to make your own firearms in the first place with no intent to sell.

I wouldn't even have anyone else touch my "experimental" gun in the event even if they get a paper cut from it.

What happens if I made a handgun that may not be in the same "quality" as the gunsmith and they think different of it and not serialize if they didn't think it was safe?? I don't want to be judged. It shouldn't be anyone but my problem if blows up in my hands.

Also, what happens if I made a gun with a non-traditional caliber that doesn't exist in common manufacturing? How the hell would that be able to be notated? What happens if I didn't want to tell them what caliber it is?

Not to change the subject, but it's similar, does anyone know if it's possible to legally buy a single shot bolt action pistol in NY?
 
J

JRtraderny

.308 Win
Messages
2,768
Reaction score
1,615
Location
USA
ManualF150 said:
Still blows my mind that it is illegal to make your own firearms in the first place with no intent to sell.

I wouldn't even have anyone else touch my "experimental" gun in the event even if they get a paper cut from it.

What happens if I made a handgun that may not be in the same "quality" as the gunsmith and they think different of it and not serialize if they didn't think it was safe?? I don't want to be judged. It shouldn't be anyone but my problem if blows up in my hands.

Also, what happens if I made a gun with a non-traditional caliber that doesn't exist in common manufacturing? How the hell would that be able to be notated? What happens if I didn't want to tell them what caliber it is?

Not to change the subject, but it's similar, does anyone know if it's possible to legally buy a single shot bolt action pistol in NY?
Click to expand...
I bought 2 Crickett single shot bolt action .22WMR pistols last year from my LGS so yes it's legal.
 
Acer-m14

Acer-m14

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
35,983
Reaction score
38,599
Location
Livingston
how many FFLs in NYS do serial number ?

and not by using these

802783.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top