Serializing Frames (NYS Law)

[pshift]

Unless I read this incorrectly, there may be a way to 'properly register' your out-of-state unserialized handgun to make it legal in NYS (why would anyone want to do that anyways). It also appears that this does not apply to regular folk who are not gunsmiths, etc. Thoughts and apologies if this has been addressed in previous threads.

Penal Law Section 265.07
Registration and serialization of firearms, rifles, shotguns, finished frames or receivers, and unfinished frames or receivers​

(1)​

For the purposes of this section, “unfinished frame or receiver” means any unserialized material that does not constitute the frame or receiver of a firearm, rifle or shotgun but that has been shaped or formed in any way for the purpose of becoming the frame or receiver of a firearm, rifle or shotgun, and which may readily be made into a functional frame or receiver through milling, drilling or other means.

(2)​

On or before the effective date of this section, and promptly upon taking possession thereof at any time thereafter, any person licensed as a gunsmith, or required to be, or a dealer in firearms pursuant to section 400.00 of this chapter, who is in possession of an unserialized firearm, rifle, shotgun, finished frame or receiver, or unfinished frame or receiver shall:

(a)​

engrave, cast, stamp or otherwise conspicuously place both a unique serial number and his or her name (or recognized abbreviation) on such firearm, rifle, shotgun, finished frame or receiver, or unfinished frame or receiver, in a manner that satisfies or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and manufacturers pursuant to section (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto at the time of such assembly; and

(b)​

register with the division of criminal justice services in accordance with regulations promulgated by such division any such firearm, rifle or shotgun, finished frame or receiver, or unfinished frame or receiver. Any person licensed as a gunsmith, or required to be, or a dealer in firearms pursuant to section 400.00 of this chapter who fails to comply with the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a class E felony.

 

[Cavalry]

Yes there is a legal path, but its not very viable IMO. NY states a gunsmith or dealer can do it, but the reality is Federally only a manufacturer (07FFL) can manufacture. The more important thing is would a 07FFL even engrave his information and put it on his books for a frame that will not be completed in their shop? Reputation wise that is a terrible idea let alone from a liability standpoint. Even if one could convince a shop to put it on the books I do not believe they can, only firearms can be transferred and Federally its not.

 

[kev74]

My reading of the law...

If someone bought a 80% rifle lower in a free state, and stamped a serial number on it - 001 for example - it would no longer be unserialized, and could be lawfully brought into and possessed in NYS. Since it already had a serial number, it wouldn't have to comply with federal marking requirements or be registered with the division of criminal justice services.

How they would determine where and when the serial number was applied, I don't know.

A pistol would have to be brought in through an FFL.

 

[thughes]

How they would determine where and when the serial number was applied, I don't know.

That would be easy! My rifle's serial number would be: kathyhochulsuxmydik001

 

[Cavalry]

My reading of the law...

If someone bought a 80% rifle lower in a free state, and stamped a serial number on it - 001 for example - it would no longer be unserialized, and could be lawfully brought into and possessed in NYS. Since it already had a serial number, it wouldn't have to comply with federal marking requirements or be registered with the division of criminal justice services. How they would determine where and when the serial number was applied, I don't know.

Laser engravers are pretty reasonable these days...Just saying

 

[Cavalry]

That would be easy! My rifle's serial number would be: kathyhochulsuxmydik001

That could happen

 

[kev74]

Funny part about this law - if you have some expensive, rare, collectable firearm without a serial number, and you were to bring it to a gunsmith for maintenance, they can't give it back to you without defacing it with their harbor freight number punch kit. Honk honk!!

 

[Cavalry]

Funny part about this law - if you have some expensive, rare, collectable firearm without a serial number, and you were to bring it to a gunsmith for maintenance, they can't give it back to you without defacing it with their harbor freight number punch kit. Honk honk!!

If only there was a legal avenue for such services. .003" which is the minimum is not very deep, essentially just enough for ones fingernail to catch. It could be laser engraved and then a similar file laser engraved over the top to disrupt the original pattern. It would need to be refinished as original and unless very exotic it would never be noticed.
Gomer beating the piss out of something with his horrible freight letter set is another story all together, I cant fix that easily.

 

[kev74]

If only there was a legal avenue for such services. .003" which is the minimum is not very deep, essentially just enough for ones fingernail to catch. It could be laser engraved and then a similar file laser engraved over the top to disrupt the original pattern. It would need to be refinished as original and unless very exotic it would never be noticed.
Gomer beating the piss out of something with his horrible freight letter set is another story all together, I cant fix that easily.

The legal avenue would be not to use a NY gunsmith for an old, collectable gun without a serial number.

 

[Rocpo]

It says "licensed as a gunsmith". I wasn't aware of a licensing process for a gunsmith.
I may take a Glock Armorer's class later this year. Would that qualify me as a "licensed gunsmith" if Glock certifies me?

 

[dsdmmat]

It says "licensed as a gunsmith". I wasn't aware of a licensing process for a gunsmith.
I may take a Glock Armorer's class later this year. Would that qualify me as a "licensed gunsmith" if Glock certifies me?

No you have to apply to the ATF for a gunsmith license. Once you pay the fee and they approve it, you are a licensed gunsmith. The class might actually make you know what you are doing.
So many bubba gunsmiths out there with a FFL and a dremel tool.

Gunsmiths | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Answers to some common questions on the definitions of a gunsmith, licensing and recordkeeping requirements.

www.atf.gov

 

[kev74]

You also need a NYS license to be a gunsmith / FFL.

 

[Cavalry]

No you have to apply to the ATF for a gunsmith license. Once you pay the fee and they approve it, you are a licensed gunsmith. The class might actually make you know what you are doing.
So many bubba gunsmiths out there with a FFL and a dremel tool.

Gunsmiths | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Answers to some common questions on the definitions of a gunsmith, licensing and recordkeeping requirements.

www.atf.gov

There is not a separate federal "gunsmith license". They would need to have a 01,02 or 07 FFL. Most smiths are working for a retail location or also selling so its not really a problem, they already have it.
NY has a separate license for dealers and gunsmiths, but that has nothing to do with the federal license other than they need permission twice to make a living.

 

[dsdmmat]

There is not a separate federal "gunsmith license". They would need to have a 01,02 or 07 FFL. Most smiths are working for a retail location or also selling so its not really a problem, they already have it.
NY has a separate license for dealers and gunsmiths, but that has nothing to do with the federal license other than they need permission twice to make a living.

Yep.
Federally: A licensed Gunsmith is someone with an FFL who works on guns. That is why I mentioned “bubba with a Dremel and an FFL,” at the end of my post.

State laws vary like politicians.
in NC you have to have an FFL.
In NY you have to obtain a NY Dealer-gunsmith license as well as the FFL.

 

[Cavalry]

Yep.
Federally: A licensed Gunsmith is someone with an FFL who works on guns. That is why I mentioned “bubba with a Dremel and an FFL,” at the end of my post.

State laws vary like politicians.
in NC you have to have an FFL.
In NY you have to obtain a NY Dealer-gunsmith license as well as the FFL.

Ahhh...I read your statement differently, as the fed was issuing a special license to gunsmiths, akin to a licensed electrician, not a FFL holder than happens to work on guns.

 

[Acer-m14]

No you have to apply to the ATF for a gunsmith license. Once you pay the fee and they approve it, you are a licensed gunsmith.

You also need a NYS license to be a gunsmith / FFL.

and you do not even have to know what a fkin gun is ... here is my $$$$ ... poooof!!! your a gumsmith

 

[Cavalry]

and you do not even have to know what a fkin gun is ... here is my $$$$ ... poooof!!! your a gumsmith

Pretty much anyone that has wasted their money with an "education" from SDI

 

[dsdmmat]

gunsmiths start with:

Manufacturers start with: