Pistol brace on rifle = legal?

[freddy]

If I put a shockwave pistol brace (pistol stabilizer) on an AR rifle will this be illegal in NYS? Does a 'rifle' become a 'pistol' by having a pistol brace? If I put a shoulder stock on a pistol AR it becomes an SBR as I understand it, so wondering if the reverse is true.

 

[spat]

If I put a shockwave pistol brace (pistol stabilizer) on an AR rifle will this be illegal in NYS? Does it become a 'pistol' by having a pistol brace? If I put a shoulder stock on a pistol AR it becomes an SBR as I understand it, so wondering if the reverse is true.

I wouldn't see why, you can put a pistol brace on a pistol and it doesn't become a rifle, short barrel or otherwise (although I'm not sure if NYS has ever ruled on that, and we all know that they pay about as much attention to the federal definitions for these things as liberals do to the 2A.

I think it won't be a rifle anymore, but if the overall length is still long enough that it isn't concealable, then it won't be a pistol either. Kinda like the PGO shotguns.

From PL265

11. "Rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and
intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and
made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic
cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for
each single pull of the trigger.

And the definition for a firearm (i.e. a pistol in bizarro NY land).

d)
any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or
otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Sir...? Where have you been? It's a pistol with or without a brace. The shockwave just makes the pistol look nicer than just a buffer tube and has the added functionality of allowing you to stabilize the pistol on your "cheek" or "forearm". <--- very exaggerated air quotes used here

 

[freddy]

Sir...? Where have you been? It's a pistol with or without a brace. The shockwave just makes the pistol look nicer than just a buffer tube and has the added functionality of allowing you to stabilize the pistol on your "cheek" or "forearm". <--- very exaggerated air quotes used here

Huh? AR rifle is a pistol? NYS is outta control!

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Hmmm. Maybe you're right. Not a pistol but an AOW?

 

[spat]

Sir...? Where have you been? It's a pistol with or without a brace. The shockwave just makes the pistol look nicer than just a buffer tube and has the added functionality of allowing you to stabilize the pistol on your "cheek" or "forearm". <--- very exaggerated air quotes used here

If it has a 16+" barrel *and* an OAL of 26+", then it is not a pistol.

 

[freddy]

I wouldn't see why, you can put a pistol brace on a pistol and it doesn't become a rifle, short barrel or otherwise (although I'm not sure if NYS has ever ruled on that, and we all know that they pay about as much attention to the federal definitions for these things as liberals do to the 2A.

I think it won't be a rifle anymore, but if the overall look length is still long enough that it isn't concealable, then it won't be a pistol either. Kinda like the PGO shotguns.

From PL265

If it has a 16+" barrel *and* an OAL of 26+", then it is not a pistol.

True. But it MUST be something very very EVIL!!!

 

[spat]

Hmmm. Maybe you're right. Not a pistol but an AOW?

AOW is a federal thing, the weapon the OP described is not one (as long as the barrel and overall lengths are long enough)

 

[spat]

True. But it MUST be something very very EVIL!!!

I think it would be the same thing as the PGO shotguns, that are readily available, even here in NY.

 

[freddy]

Now, will this AR be short enough to fit in my swim trunks?

 

[Marine Cpl]

I'm confused with what the hell you guys are saying. Federally, a rifle is always a rifle. So if you turn your stripped lower into a completed rifle or buy a complete rifle, no matter what you do to it, it's always a rifle.

You can remove the stock and it's still a rifle. You can add a brace and it's still a rifle.

The question is what will NY see it as with their laws. Probably a rifle as well.

A pistol can be turned into a rifle. A rifle can not be turned into a pistol. It can only become an SBR rifle.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

I'm confused with what the hell you guys are saying. Federally, a rifle is always a rifle. So if you turn your stripped lower into a completed rifle or buy a complete rifle, no matter what you do to it, it's always a rifle.

You can remove the stock and it's still a rifle. You can add a brace and it's still a rifle.

The question is what will NY see it as with their laws. Probably a rifle as well.

A pistol can be turned into a rifle. A rifle can not be turned into a pistol. It can only become an SBR rifle.

I'm a bit confused as well. He's asking if putting a shockwave on a rifle will make it a pistol. Why you would want to do this I don't know but... if a rifle doesn't have a stock is it still a rifle though? We know that the shockwave ins't a "stock" (again exaggerated air quotes) so if you put it on a rifle (by federal definition) what do you have? It's not a pistol because it's too long but it's not a rifle because there is no stock. Or is it a rifle that is simply missing a stock to be fired from the shoulder? With the overturning of the stance on the arm brace and it not being a redesign if used differently than originally intended IDK.

 

[Uzi]

Not sure what the desire or advantage would be of putting a pistol brace on a rifle.

 

[Marine Cpl]

A rifle is always a rifle.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

 

[freddy]

...putting a shockwave on a rifle will make it a pistol. Why you would want to do this I don't know but... .

Not sure what the desire or advantage would be of putting a pistol brace on a rifle.

Cheap CQB stock. Need short overall length.

 

[nortatoga]

My bad thought this was about AR pistol!!

 

[Marine Cpl]

Cheap CQB stock. Need short overall length.

I use this.

BAD-LBS-MIL Lightweight Butt Stock for MilSpec Receiver Extension | Battle Arms Development

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

http://www.primaryarms.com/magpul-moe-fixed-carbine-stock-mil-spec-black-mag480-blk

$24

 

[spat]

A rifle is always a rifle.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

Federally this thing would obviously be a rifle (assuming the length requirements are still met).

In NY it would not be a rifle, or a pistol, the same situation as the pistol grip shotguns, this would be a pistol grip only rifle. Which NY considera neither a rifle/shotgun nor a handgun, but legally they have been treated as generic long guns in NY..

 

[Marine Cpl]

Federally this thing would obviously be a rifle (assuming the length requirements are still met).

In NY it would not be a rifle, or a pistol, the same situation as the pistol grip shotguns, this would be a pistol grip only rifle. Which NY considera neither a rifle/shotgun nor a handgun, but legally they have been treated as generic long guns in NY..

It doesn't matter what it is in NY. Federally it's a rifle. NY won't protect you from Federal law. If an SBR was a shotgun under 16 inches in NY and federally it was 18 inches like it really is, you would still have an SBR and be subject to federal law.

 

[spat]

It doesn't matter what it is in NY. Federally it's a rifle. NY won't protect you from Federal law. If an SBR was a shotgun under 16 inches in NY and federally it was 18 inches like it really is, you would still have an SBR and be subject to federal law.

I did say "if the length requirements are still met".

you have to satisfy *both* the federal and the NY laws to be legal here. and you *cannot* swap the definitions between them.

So, federally it is a rifle, NY it isn't. Just like federally your Remington 700 deer rifle is a firearm, but in NY law it isn't.

We really should preface the terms that NY bastardizes with NY- and fed- in these discussions. so, assuming the barrel and overall length requirements are still met (16" and 26" respectively), then this thing will he a fed-rifle, but not a NY- rifle, and it will be a fed-firearm, but not a NY-firearm. You would have to follow the fed rules for possession of a rifle and firearm, but not the NY rules for possession of a firearm.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I did say "if the length requirements are still met".

you have to satisfy *both* the federal and the NY laws to be legal here. and you *cannot* swap the definitions between them.

So, federally it is a rifle, NY it isn't. Just like federally your Remington 700 deer rifle is a firearm, but in NY law it isn't.

We really should preface the terms that NY bastardizes with NY- and fed- in these discussions. so, assuming the barrel and overall length requirements are still met (16" and 26" respectively), then this thing will he a fed-rifle, but not a NY- rifle, and it will be a fed-firearm, but not a NY-firearm. You would have to follow the fed rules for possession of a rifle and firearm, but not the NY rules for possession of a firearm.

What I'm saying is that if it is a no go federally but okay as per NY law, it's a no go.

So basically you have to see if it's a no go federally first. If it is, you have to stop right there. NY law wouldn't matter at that point.

 

[spat]

What I'm saying is that if it is a no go federally but okay as per NY law, it's a no go.

So basically you have to see if it's a no go federally first. If it is, you have to stop right there. NY law wouldn't matter at that point.

Of course, it has to satisfy both. if it were a no go in NY, but ok federally you are stuck too (and that is the far more likely case).

I think you would have to try pretty hard to find something that would be OK by NY law, but outlawed federally though.

And of course, nothing is really flat out illegal in either, you can have anything legally in NY, if you are willing to pay enough $$ and file enough paperwork.

It would be interesting to see someone challenge some of these laws on that basis, NY doesnt say no machineguns, it says you need to pay a lot of $$ to have them. If you can buy your way into the "special club", it kind of makes the point that the government doesnt have a compelling interest in restricting that stuff at all. All these laws are in effect not bans on guns, but bans on poor and middle class having them.

 

[Exonautic]

Cheap CQB stock. Need short overall length.

If thats the case may i suggest this to go along with it since it's still a rifle.
SBP Blade Protector

 

[freddy]

If thats the case may i suggest this to go along with it since it's still a rifle.
SBP Blade Protector

Very good!

 

[Exonautic]

Very good!

Military arms channel did a piece on it and the atf decisions on it. It's not legal for a pistol, but if you're waiting on a stamp for your pistol or like in your case want a tight compact stock it seems like a good piece. Has some nice solid lockup to.

 

[dsdmmat]

If I put a shockwave pistol brace (pistol stabilizer) on an AR rifle will this be illegal in NYS? Does a 'rifle' become a 'pistol' by having a pistol brace? If I put a shoulder stock on a pistol AR it becomes an SBR as I understand it, so wondering if the reverse is true.

According to the ATF once a rifle always a rifle. try one of these if you are looking for small and compact. Amazon.com : Leapers UTG Model 4 Compact Tactical Fixed Stock Assembly, Black RB-T469SB : Sports & Outdoors