Genius New way to make NY Legal AR15 / M4 NY Compliant (Tier 5 MBC)

[meketrefe]

With the lever moved it continues to be a semiauto.

???? - Autoloader = semiauto <> the above.

 

[freddy]

NOT LEGAL SORRY!!!

With the slide racked it continues to be semiauto.

 

[freddy]

???? - Autoloader = semiauto <> the above.

Just teasing you man.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Freddy, I fail to see what you are saying. The energy of the round doesn't cause the extraction and rechambering of another one.

Here's the definition.

21. "Semiautomatic" means any repeating rifle, shotgun or pistol, regardless of barrel or overall length, which utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge or shell to extract the fired cartridge case or spent shell and chamber the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge or shell.

 

[meketrefe]

Oh I see you are being sarcastic! lol

How about this "automatic" bolt action?

 

[meketrefe]

More semiauto bolt action...
And with iron sights 300 meters and they don't miss...

 

[Marine Cpl]

Nevermind. You are correct. Disregard my earlier post. You can make a bolt semi auto.

 

[dsdmmat]

 

[nortatoga]

Now that was cool! Thanks for posting it!!

 

[Mr. terzmo]

I'll use my mini 30 until the crap act is over

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Not legal sorry!

With the bolt catch pressed continues to be a semiauto.

Regarding the tier 5

Funny. The atf says it is NOT semi.

If you hold the button, you are MANUALLY closing the bolt.

Please reread the ATF definition of semi auto.....it says something about one round per trigger pull.

It does not say one round per trigger pull while your other hand releases the bolt.

ie: semi auto should shoot 1 round per trigger pull with nothing else touching the gun except for ONE trigger finger that only touches the trigger.

As much as people would like to argue this, it is a none issue. The atf says it is a manually operated gun. This is well within their authority (unlike that "redesigned" bullshit they tried on the brace)

Easy as pie.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Regarding the tier 5

Funny. The atf says it is NOT semi.

If you hold the button, you are MANUALLY closing the bolt.

Please reread the ATF definition of semi auto.....it says something about one round per trigger pull.

It does not say one round per trigger pull while your other hand releases the bolt.

ie: semi auto should shoot 1 round per trigger pull with nothing else touching the gun except for ONE trigger finger that only touches the trigger.

As much as people would like to argue this, it is a none issue. The atf says it is a manually operated gun. This is well within their authority (unlike that "redesigned" bullshit they tried on the brace)

Easy as pie.

Except the definition in Penal Law 265 is the only one that matters. Come on. You should know that by now.

 

[meketrefe]

Regarding the tier 5

Funny. The atf says it is NOT semi.

If you hold the button, you are MANUALLY closing the bolt.

Please reread the ATF definition of semi auto.....it says something about one round per trigger pull.

It does not say one round per trigger pull while your other hand releases the bolt.

ie: semi auto should shoot 1 round per trigger pull with nothing else touching the gun except for ONE trigger finger that only touches the trigger.

As much as people would like to argue this, it is a none issue. The atf says it is a manually operated gun. This is well within their authority (unlike that "redesigned" bullshit they tried on the brace)

Easy as pie.

Come on Bullet,
you should know this stupid "solution" is not part of the firing or operating mechanism.
If with a milder cartridge, the bolt doesn't reach the catch, it will not stop even w/o pressing the release.
If you put a toothpick in the catch effectively you prevented the gun from stopping ever again w/o the operator doing anything.

Show me the ATF says this specifically is not a semiautomatic gun and then I will be on board. Otherwise nothing has changed in the gun.

We have gone through things like this a million times. Nothing has really changed.

 

[freddy]

NOT LEGAL SORRY!

With powder/ram/cocking it continues to be semiauto.

 

[Marine Cpl]

NOT LEGAL SORRY!

With powder/ram/cocking it continues to be semiauto.

Did your attorney tell you that? He's been known to give bad Information regarding AR legality. Tell your attorney to reread the laws.

 

[meketrefe]

NOT LEGAL SORRY!

With powder/ram/cocking it continues to be semiauto.

Fully automatic..... given enough time between cycles.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Come on Bullet,
you should know this stupid "solution" is not part of the firing or operating mechanism.
If with a milder cartridge, the bolt doesn't reach the catch, it will not stop even w/o pressing the release.
If you put a toothpick in the catch effectively you prevented the gun from stopping ever again w/o the operator doing anything.

Show me the ATF says this specifically is not a semiautomatic gun and then I will be on board. Otherwise nothing has changed in the gun.

We have gone through things like this a million times. Nothing has really changed.

You can argue that using sub standard ammo is a way around it but, come on......

Toothpick? Come on!

I will ask tier 5 for the atf info.

Used properly it satisfies the not a semi part.

But if the interdweebs wanna fight about it online, have at it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You can argue that using sub standard ammo is a way around it but, come on......

Toothpick? Come on!

I will ask tier 5 for the atf info.

Used properly it satisfies the not a semi part.

But if the interdweebs wanna fight about it online, have at it.

I know you don't read this but for those concerned, the ATF doesn't govern NY's law regarding it's definition of semi automatic so doing that is worthless.

 

[meketrefe]

You can argue that using sub standard ammo is a way around it but, come on......

Toothpick? Come on!

I will ask tier 5 for the atf info.

Used properly it satisfies the not a semi part.

But if the interdweebs wanna fight about it online, have at it.

Is not interdweebs seriously.

Have a lawyer verify this with NYSP like other manufacturers have done with their solutions.
As per the ATF this continues to be an auto-loader. Read the logic behind the bolt lock and lever release from those british guys.
They did it like that after talking to the ATF and discussing the possibility to introduce that in the US market. The position of the lever
doesn't matter but the sear and disconnect from the bolt lock is the only way to make it ATF trust worthy.
This means the bolt will stop anyway even w/o releasing the lever release. One has to release and reengage and will work every
single time even if the system short-strokes because it is independent of the bolt catch.

You know we had this discussion before and the auto-loading condition must not be reproduced not even once under any conditions
should that firearm be taken away and facing potential charges and or liabilities.
It is like a trigger poorly installed with a faulty dis-connector sear. It can be constructed as a hack with a fully automatic mechanism.
There are all sort of hacks that rely on the auto-loader baseline to make simliar modifications like a delayed release

and yes you can jam a tooth pick in there and remove the bolt locking.

Could that be considered by NYSP as a "readily reverseable feature" ??

what do you think ? why don't you ask NYSP?

Not that I not share your enthusiasm but we should be very careful with this a the risk of putting the new shooters and AR enthusiasts at risk here.

lets be pragmatic and realistic.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Is not interdweebs seriously.

Have a lawyer verify this with NYSP like other manufacturers have done with their solutions.
As per the ATF this continues to be an auto-loader. Read the logic behind the bolt lock and lever release from those british guys.
They did it like that after talking to the ATF and discussing the possibility to introduce that in the US market. The position of the lever
doesn't matter but the sear and disconnect from the bolt lock is the only way to make it ATF trust worthy.
This means the bolt will stop anyway even w/o releasing the lever release. One has to release and reengage and will work every
single time even if the system short-strokes because it is independent of the bolt catch.

You know we had this discussion before and the auto-loading condition must not be reproduced not even once under any conditions
should that firearm be taken away and facing potential charges and or liabilities.
It is like a trigger poorly installed with a faulty dis-connector sear. It can be constructed as a hack with a fully automatic mechanism.
There are all sort of hacks that rely on the auto-loader baseline to make simliar modifications like a delayed release

and yes you can jam a tooth pick in there and remove the bolt locking.

Could that be considered by NYSP as a "readily reverseable feature" ??

what do you think ? why don't you ask NYSP?

Not that I not share your enthusiasm but we should be very careful with this a the risk of putting the new shooters and AR enthusiasts at risk here.

lets be pragmatic and realistic.

The NYSP or an attorney cannot legally interpret law. Only a judge can. Anything either of the two give is just an opinion and not admissible in a court.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

No where do they talk about hammer trigger sear engagement as a definition of semi automatic.

You were just using semantics.

Of course anything can be over ridden with the toothpick. I was being facetious. You're Excelerator on your car will make your car go faster than legal as well. But if you do that you're still breaking the law.

I am late for doing my job today so i can not look farther, here's the definition of semi automatic for you.

semiautomatic

The best part of it it says loads to the next round.

Obviously if the piece is faulty or your ammunition is faulty the gun may not perform as intended. Then it needs to be repaired. Obviously if you're disconnector is broken and your firearm fires and burst mode you will be in trouble. You will repair it. And it will function is normal.

 

[Marine Cpl]

No where do they talk about hammer trigger sear engagement as a definition of semi automatic.

You were just using semantics.

Of course anything can be over ridden with the toothpick. I was being facetious. You're Excelerator on your car will make your car go faster than legal as well. But if you do that you're still breaking the law.

I am late for doing my job today so i can not look farther, here's the definition of semi automatic for you.

semiautomatic

The best part of it it says loads to the next round.

Obviously if the piece is faulty or your ammunition is faulty the gun may not perform as intended. Then it needs to be repaired. Obviously if you're disconnector is broken and your firearm fires and burst mode you will be in trouble. You will repair it. And it will function is normal.

A dictionary definition doesn't hold up in court. How about using the one from NY Penal Law 265?

If you are going to sell these devices as a trusted FFL to people who depend on you, you should at least quote the proper definition that would be admissible in court that uses wording regarding the energy of the bullet to extract and chamber the next round as criteria in regards to what is semi automatic or not semi automatic.

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

If you hold the button, you are MANUALLY closing the bolt.

ie: semi auto should shoot 1 round per trigger pull with nothing else touching the gun except for ONE trigger finger that only touches the trigger.

As much as people would like to argue this, it is a none issue. The atf says it is a manually operated gun.

IF that interpretation holds...

... modify the bolt release action into a grip safety type of thing?

 

[meketrefe]

Here Brad Pit explains the SAFE act during
the NYSP education sessions...

 

[pdsarge]

Wow, that video was painful. I say kudos to those who thought of the product though