Open invitation to those who are anti gun, check in here

Drinkthekoolaid

Drinkthekoolaid

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With the recent horrific events in law Vegas and the Congress baseball shooting, I have seen a significant surge in anti gun rhetoric. The media and politicians have really upped their complaints and frequently I am hearing more anti gun "water cooler" talk.

I imagine there are those of you on this site who lurk for one reason or another. Maybe you are trying to gather information, maybe you want to learn more about guns, who knows.

I sincerely invite you to post here with any concerns you may have.

Lets have an honest discussion.

Maybe we will present new information to you that you have never heard before in the far left controlled media. Lets face it, politicians and the media have an agenda and they do not exactly conduct themselves honorably nor are they truthful.

I understand you have your pre conceived ideas but let's have some dialogue.

I'm sure there are many members here who would love to show you that the stereotypes you have been told are wrong

Don't be shy
 
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Phazer

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BlackDragon said:
Who you calling Jolly?
Click to expand...

Him (Tony Swartz):

crew11.jpg
 
Saltwater60

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I do that sometimes on twitter and as soon as I give some good reasoning or good ways to reduce gun violence they stop communicating.
Look we need to increase the murder solve rate and keep those who are gang members, drug dealers, or have past gun crimes in jail. Also might not be popular, but a few FFL's probably don't deserve their FFL, but that's a slippery slope. 90% of guns used in crimes come from 5% of FFL's. I don't post that one on twitter though.
 
Saltwater60

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T

tony

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Well of course most of the firearms found at crimes scenes are traced to dealers, the firearms had to be transferred/sold by dealers to begin with.
The form 4473 details that transaction, a legitimate transaction with a background check. Since they were found at a crime scene wouldn't you think it much more likely they were stolen firearms, stolen from the original and legal purchaser. So perhaps the story should read 100% of the guns found at crime scenes can be traced to dealers. We shouldn't believe everything we read. I call fiction...
 
Saltwater60

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tony said:
Well of course most of the firearms found at crimes scenes are traced to dealers, the firearms had to be transferred/sold by dealers to begin with.
The form 4473 details that transaction, a legitimate transaction with a background check. Since they were found at a crime scene wouldn't you think it much more likely they were stolen firearms, stolen from the original and legal purchaser. So perhaps the story should read 100% of the guns found at crime scenes can be traced to dealers. We shouldn't believe everything we read. I call fiction...
Click to expand...
No the point is there are very few FFL's that possibly do a poor job of screening people possibly for straw purchases and other illegal purchases. The article says 1% of FFL's account for 60% of guns found at crime scenes. If they did a better job maybe the murder rate would drop or at least we'd look better.

In case you don't know of this case this circumstance is what I'm speaking about. This place did a very poor job, 2 cops got shot, they have a long history of doing a poor job, and they still had an FFL. They had a horribly long history of repeated guns showing up at crimes scenes. I suggest you read the article then come back. There FFL was finally revoked. They had in one year 537 guns show up at crime scenes. Multiple times were in the 10 twnnin the country for guns to show up at crime scenes.

Two Officers Were Shot; Wisconsin Store Liable for Gun Sale

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nb...-negligence-milwaukee-police-shooting-n443951
 
T

tony

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The person in your article who did the purchase did pass a NICS check. The shop sold x amount of guns that turned up at crime scenes. Sounds like a fail on whomever is watching the hen house, namely BATFE. Wouldn't you agree.
The FFL holder doesn't have enough resources available to do a legitimate screening while NICS has it at their finger tips, unless of course we are going to base the legitimacy of the sale on your appearance...

Lots of crooked mechanics, builders, POLITICIANS, etc... I think many more than crooked FFL's. The numbers can be skewed to show whatever we need to show. But you knew that.

In any case, what is your solution?
 
spat

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Saltwater60 said:
No the point is there are very few FFL's that possibly do a poor job of screening people possibly for straw purchases and other illegal purchases. The article says 1% of FFL's account for 60% of guns found at crime scenes. If they did a better job maybe the murder rate would drop or at least we'd look better.

In case you don't know of this case this circumstance is what I'm speaking about. This place did a very poor job, 2 cops got shot, they have a long history of doing a poor job, and they still had an FFL. They had a horribly long history of repeated guns showing up at crimes scenes. I suggest you read the article then come back. There FFL was finally revoked. They had in one year 537 guns show up at crime scenes. Multiple times were in the 10 twnnin the country for guns to show up at crime scenes.

Two Officers Were Shot; Wisconsin Store Liable for Gun Sale

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nb...-negligence-milwaukee-police-shooting-n443951
Click to expand...
What % of all gun sales were made by those 1% of FFLs ?

The odds of some super FFL who sells 100k guns a year ending up with some at crime scenes is a lot higher than some hole in the wall shop that's lucky to sell 1000.

I bet that 1% of FFLs counts Walmart, Gander, Field and Stream, etc... because of sheer volume compared to "normal" FFLs. Is the answer to get rid of "big" dealers ?
 
HEX

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As far as I can figure I've been on various gun forums for about 15 years or so. Maybe longer even, but that's just my oldest account that I can remember and find. It was 12 years or so ago (circa 2005-2006) that I really got active on them.

Anyway , my point is that in all that time, across different forums, I've seen what I would call a real fully 'anti-gun person' join and actually get into discussion with members maybe.. twice. I don't think I've seen it at all in recent years either; those couple were very early on. Even people just joining to troll, that's also really rare. I've only seen that a few times too.

I'm not sure exactly why it doesn't happen; it just doesn't. Antis just aren't into the forum format I guess.. I dunno.
 
Darth

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HEX said:
As far as I can figure I've been on various gun forums for about 15 years or so. Maybe longer even, but that's just my oldest account that I can remember and find. It was 12 years or so ago (circa 2005-2006) that I really got active on them.

Anyway , my point is that in all that time, across different forums, I've seen what I would call a real fully 'anti-gun person' join and actually get into discussion with members maybe.. twice. I don't think I've seen it at all in recent years either; those couple were very early on. Even people just joining to troll, that's also really rare. I've only seen that a few times too.

I'm not sure exactly why it doesn't happen; it just doesn't. Antis just aren't into the forum format I guess.. I dunno.
Click to expand...
Antis much prefer one sided discussions.
 
Saltwater60

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tony said:
The person in your article who did the purchase did pass a NICS check. The shop sold x amount of guns that turned up at crime scenes. Sounds like a fail on whomever is watching the hen house, namely BATFE. Wouldn't you agree.
The FFL holder doesn't have enough resources available to do a legitimate screening while NICS has it at their finger tips, unless of course we are going to base the legitimacy of the sale on your appearance...

Lots of crooked mechanics, builders, POLITICIANS, etc... I think many more than crooked FFL's. The numbers can be skewed to show whatever we need to show. But you knew that.

In any case, what is your solution?
Click to expand...
You should watch the video it's pretty evident to me that it was clearly a straw purchase. Clearly.

These FFL's make us look very bad.

Spat inunderstand what your saying and agree 100% that larger volume sales places could have more guns show up at crime scenes and I'm not saying stop selling guns to people based on looks, but there actions.

It seems the ATF dropped the ball as well as the local PD after reading this article.

Badger Guns lost license over serious infractions
 
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