.300 Blackout vs 7.62x39

meketrefe · Oct 21, 2016

With all bullets the same the 7.62x39 has the capacity to launch anything faster because of the larger case capacity. Initially the 7.62x39 is flatter shooting and more energy on the target.
What loads do you have in mind? It is hard to answer w/o knowing the actual loads.
If you take a 110gr barnes for the whisper/blackout what brand would that be? And then in the 7.62x39 you should
pick a premium load too and not the typical 123gr bulk/cheap case steel load that is designed for cheap volume shooting
and not performance.
For subsonic work only the blackout will be a better choice because it is what it was originally designed for.

Airborneguy · Oct 21, 2016

My 7.62x39 AR is my second most accurate rifle. It's decent with Herter's, Wolf, etc, but with reloads you'd never believe it's that caliber.

meketrefe · Oct 21, 2016

I agree with airbone guy. The steel ammo provides a good way to shoot on the cheap and the premium stuff can be then used
for hunting and competition. I would never use a herter hunting load to hunt just because the jackets are so hard that do not expand leading
to pin wounding. Luckily there are many other great rounds in this caliber and at great prices too.
You have other 123gr to 150gr loads that are very accurate and have decent ballistics. Personally with these small-for-caliber 30 caliber
rifles I would prefer a 150gr load. This is too much for the blackout but not the 7.62x39 that has several 152gr hunting bullets that are launched
at 2150-2200fps from a 16" barrel. A 150gr soft point is already a decent hard hitting hunting round even at very modest speeds.

And please do not let anyone compare things w/o a context. The blackout should not be compared with the 7.62x39 and the 7.62x39 should not be compared with the 30.30 because that leads to confusion and even professional writers are misleading the consumers because they do not have a clue about ballistics and they are too lazy to even look it up.

Yep I read a couple of articles where people try to put all those in the same category not sure why since they were conceived with complete different purposes in mind. If anyone shoots the 30-30 knows that it can launch a 180gr bullet at the same speeds the 7.62x39 can launch a 150gr bullet and this one can launch the 150gr bullet at the same speeds the whisper/blackout can launch a 125gr bullet.

Case capacity has a huge saying on cartrige performance and modern bullets with flex tip bullets are available for tube fed firearms.

meketrefe · Oct 21, 2016

If this is for the AR the only thing you need extra aside from the barrel with the 7.62x39 are the bolt head and a couple of magazines.
Both are inexpensive but please consider a tad better beefed up bolt that is not a lot more money. I would actually try to buy a
beefed up bolt from the same barrel maker headspaced and everything. ASC mags are like $12-14 each.
The parts is not the issue. I think it is more important if you want to be able to reuse the 223 brass that can be converted to
blackout brass if you want to put the time.
But once fired 7.62x39 is also inexpensive for reloading and you have very inexpensive ammo for practice.
It is a taught call. I have them both! LOL ..barely use them anyway.

If you are going to reload what about the 6x45 or the 6mm TCU? those leave the 30 caliber in the dust. No cheap steel ammo
though. Some people sell ammo but hard to find so you need to reload.

dsdmmat · Oct 21, 2016

What would the intended purpose of the new caliber be? What is the goal you have in mind?

I also have both calibers as well, I have never really been impressed with the 7.62x39. It might be because I have only fired them out of Chineese weapons. It is a fun caliber to shoot but the American ammo was/is expensive and the import stuff isn't really that much cheaper anymore. When you could get a box of 20 for 2.99 I was shooting that stuff all day for a decade.

The blackout is a fun gun to shoot out to 200 yards but, won't be better than 1MOA if you are shooting steel plates it will do the job but, you will get frustrated if you try to shoot tiny groups.

Realistically you will be able to kill anything you are aiming at inside 200 yards with either caliber.

The 7.62x39 SKS I bought in 2002 is still in cosmoline and I have plenty of ammo for it, I just am not impressed with the round or the guns that shoot it.

My 300s are range or CQB guns.

Never owned a 30-30 just didn't see the benifit over the 35 Remington or the 308 Winchester.

If you don't reload the 300 is going to cost you more than the 7.62x39 in plinking ammo. Premium ammo will cost about the same 300 vs 7.62x39 will.

The only real benifit to the 300 has over the 7.62x39 is cost to get into the caliber. A barrel swap and you are done, no need for any special mags or anything else.

I suppose you are wanting to stay with the AR platform and continue your K.I.S.S. Methodology but, still want to try out something different. If that is the case I would do a 300 BLK and if you don't like it you won't be out much money. Or you could save up a couple of grand and build an AR10 size gun.

My 110 grain reloads for the 300 BLK are shooting about 6 inches low at 200 if I do not dial up the scope from a 100 zero which is not a flat shooting round by any stretch of the imagination. Not sure what the 7.62x39 is doing since I have not fired one in 14 years or more. I was able to shoot the 500 yard steel Ram with a MAK 90 by holding about 30 feet high and 16 feet to the right but, that was in the 90s and in AZ where and when the MAKs were free flowing into the country.

I shoot a lot more 308 win and 300 BLK than 223 these days.

dsdmmat · Oct 22, 2016

Willjr75 said:
My intended purpose is just curiosity. I sold my SKS and kind of regret it.

Are you going to build a complete upper? If so the only cost difference will be getting a few new mags.

The real question is how much money do you want to put into the project.

Do you know anyone who has an AR in both calibers? If so is there any chance you can get to shoot them?

If you go with the blackout, makes sure to get a pistol length gas system and an adjustable gas block. This way you can shoot loads with 110 to 220 grain bullets without playing with spring or buffer weights. That is a rabbit hole you don't want to go down.

Of course you could go with a AR10 in 308 that is the most expensive option. It will give you power over all the options discussed and the newer ones are coming in at around 8 pounds. I have a couple that are a little over 8 pounds with scopes on them.

turbobike · Oct 22, 2016

Just went through this myself....300 vs 7.62x39 AR. I went with the 7.62X39... My main goal was "just shooting it". Be it steel, paper, hunting or plinking. The availability of ammo for the 7.62x39 is everywhere. That being said, 300 is at its best silenced. Since we live with FUAC, we probably won't see suppressors widely legal here in NY. If strictly hunting with your AR, I would recommend the 6.5 or 6.8 Grendel setup...

Airborneguy · Oct 22, 2016

Lol I did the exact opposite of you. Pre-Safe I owned a few handguns, a couple hunting rifles and two shotguns. Post-Safe I own 6-7 handguns, 1 shotgun, 7 or so hunting rifles, 5 AR's and have 10k+ rounds on hand to fill the 40+ mags I now own.

Runner99 · Oct 22, 2016

Blackout if you reload, 7.62x39 if you're only shooting factory.

Robin · Oct 22, 2016

I can understand the 7.62x39 and .300 or BO for the recreation part but as a hunting or SHTF fan gun, go with a .308 if you want to stay in the .30's. If you get separated from you cache in a shit storm you can find .308 any and everywhere, all around the globe.
You have a paid for gun and quite a bit of ammo for recreational shooting that would in a pinch work for the other two categories you mention. You don't want to, or haven't got a lot of money right now so what's the hurry, take your time, save up your money and get what you want. Or, you could plan out an A10 in .308 and buy the parts you can afford and start making it your self. I like to make things and to me half the fun is in doing the research, the anticipation, and the actual hands on assembly, the fact that you can actually take a functioning tool that you made to the range, and hunt with is gravy on the taters. Sometimes its just in how you allow yourself to look at things. Either way, best of luck in your decision making, heck, I even like that part as well.
Robin

Airborneguy · Oct 22, 2016

One could argue that 7.62x39 is probably more common worldwide than .308.

Robin · Oct 22, 2016

Well, yes you could, and I wouldn't argue, there probably are more 39's world wide. But, context is everything and while in certain parts Africa or the mideast you could probably walk around going about your business with your head down and come up with a good supply at the end of the day.
I was more refering to a SHTF situation, around here I think .308 would be much easier to scavenge if you got separated from your cache. Just about every small town has a gun shop with ton's of .308, lots of hunters around here have .308 for that very reason, so it is in many homes, no so the 39. I am not a world hunter but have talked with some and they tell me the .308 is available world wide including Russia and that is why they use it, if not for their primary arm, but as a back up because traveling doesn't always guarantee you and all your stuff will be in the same place at the same time. My thinking anyway.
Robin

meketrefe · Oct 22, 2016

IMO Comparisons w/o a context are meaningless.
If you are in one of the tribal regions of Pakistan then the AK will make more sense because it is something you can buy for $100 bucks
and lots of local cheap ammo for basic defense needs. If one needs more power for hunting or whatever they might consider other surplus
cartridges that are still popular but in many countries where the 7.62x39 is the service round the 7.62x51 is the service round of choice
for true power. In 3 or 4 countries they still have the 30-06 as service round too.

If one wants a very popular and consistent service cartridge that can take the largest game and lets say one lives in New Zealand the
308w is a great option as it is a service round there too, plentiful and powerful for any hunter in that country.
And then for a small carbine it might make sense the 223/5.56 because it is the service round.
Obviously in those countries where service ammo can be used in civilian auto-loaders (stupid laws).

dsdmmat · Oct 23, 2016

Since it sounds like you are going to be getting a complete gun, I would go with a 223 Wylde chambered AR with 1-8 or 1-7 twist. Then as money and time permits expand your caliber range with upper receiver assemblies. I too have heard horrible things about the AR in 7.62x39 reliability. Mostly they are ammo or magazine driven complaints but some have been about the bolts.

The AR 10 has its own issues especially if you are using shorter length gas systems. The rearward speed and timing of the bolt unlocking tends to break extractors. The timing and bolt thrust can be corrected a number of ways ( adjustable gas block, carrier weights, buffer weights spring strength). My AR10 type guns are adjustable gas blocked or heavier buffers with Tubbs springs.

Jem45472 · Oct 23, 2016

I went with 300 because I've heard about too many feed problem stories. Add broken bolts on top and I said no thanks. I figured I'll save my spent 556 and reload 300 for next to nothing. @dsdmmat what 110 grain bullets are you using? I've heard some can be problematic.

dsdmmat · Oct 24, 2016

Jem45472 said:
I went with 300 because I've heard about too many feed problem stories. Add broken bolts on top and I said no thanks. I figured I'll save my spent 556 and reload 300 for next to nothing. @dsdmmat what 110 grain bullets are you using? I've heard some can be problematic.

hornady V and Z max I load them a little long, when I get back to the gulag I can give you an overall measurement.

ECU Pirates · Oct 25, 2016

The .223 with the proper loading can be a fine deer cartridge. Don't have to go all the way up to 77 grain either.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

meketrefe · Oct 25, 2016

Willjr75 said:
I just looked at reviews on the 70gr TSX. It has taken quite a bit of hogs and deer with complete passthrough and no fragmentation.

IMO for deer is better a 62gr TTSX because this type of solid bullets work best with speed. They activate within one inch after they hit
soft tissue and they should never fragment. The 62gr TTSX might be also better on hogs. But the hogs also will collapse to the 70gr
when shot through the shoulders. (plexus/CNS shot). But the 70gr of course will work better with the 22-250 given the 1:8 twist.
It all depends on your speed and distances so this is why the 62ttsx might be a bit more versatile.

Same principal applies to the 308 and other calibers. We had guys loosing the game for using 180gr barnes in the 308 and 30/06.
These bullets excel with speed so a 130gr TTSX form the 308 can be launched well above 3000fps and will hit like a 270 at the ranges
we normally hunt. I have seen trauma comparable to a 270. As soon as a 30 caliber solid bullet is above 125 grains and the speeds
are in the ideal HI-end spectrum recommended by the manufacturer the bullet is going to produce a very disruptive effect.
This is one unique advantage of these bullets because they are stouter, they stay together and they put huge flaps out with speed.
For these reasons based on the same principal the 130gr TTSX is brutal in deer, hogs and black bear. The 62gr ttsx is also brutal
and easy to shoot. Speed is the key. This is a well known fact among professional hunters and guides. When matching bullets to body weight and type of animal the lower SD is compensated by the stoutness and increased speeds. In other words you can afford less grain here but compensate with other attributes.

Even if the manufacturer says they have a low end spectrum of 1600 or 1800 fps at impact there is a huge advantage in keeping
any caliber as fast as one can and above 2,100 fps at impact. The most dramatic shock waves are inflicted when calibers are kept above that
ideal low end strike speed. Of course we are talking about premium solid and bonded bullets. Budget and fragmentation bullets can work
at slower strike speeds but also hydro static shock is less pronounced after reviewing various tapes of game react in slow motion
after being recorded. This is not as easily appreciated in bare gelatin tests.

Another good proof of this is that some manufactures actually post pictures of recovered bullets at different impact speeds and one
can see the result of speed in activation and mushroom size.

There are exceptions to the rule but most brands work consistent to these directives.

.300 Blackout vs 7.62x39

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