Preferred MSR Caliber for Youth hunting?

[SigFan]

Need some help all... my daughter wants to go whitetail hunting for the first time next year. She’s currently 13 and a very slight build. She took 1 shot with a 410 during the Hunters Safety course and it almost knocked her over. Ever since, she has been very recoil sensitive. I’ve got a Windham Weaponry MSR in .223/.556 with a Sig Romeo 5 set up and ready to go. I realize this is a bit under powered so I was considering a PSA upper in .224 Valkyrie or 6.5 Grendel. My dilemma is that I have zero experience with either cartridge. Ballistically, I’d prefer to go with the Grendel but I’m concerned about the increase in felt recoil compared to the .223. Our maximum distance would be 100 yards so as an alternative, I could stick with the .223 but that makes shot placement even more critical. I’m not sure how she will respond when she has one in her sights for the first time. I’d prefer to hedge our margin of error with a slightly larger/more powerful round if possible. Anyone willing to share your experiences?

 

[fnfalguy]

AR-10 type in .243? Not endorsing this one (I don’t know about the brand), just a link as an example.

AR-STONER LR-308 A3 Billet Upper Receiver Assembly 243 Winchester 22

The AR-Stoner LR-308 A3 Billet Upper Receiver Assembly chambered in 243 Winchester is ready to be assembled to a complete lower and fired! This LR-308...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[1911guy]

Proper instruction on how to shoot should take care of the recoil sensitivity. Concentrate on shooting technique and don't worry about hunting until after she knows how to shoot well. Don't put the cart in front of the horse.

 

[dsdmmat]

223 has been killing things for nearly 70 years. Unless you plan on running a 22 inch or longer barrel for the Valkyrie go with the 6.5 Grendel. The Valkyrie come into its own at distances beyond 600 yards, that is where was designed to be used. The Grendel is going to give you a heavier bullet and good energy at the distance you are shooting. Put a good muzzle brake on it and she won’t feel the difference.

 

[SigFan]

That would be an ideal combo... unfortunately, current funds won’t allow for a whole new setup. I could probably convince the wife that an upper is a reasonable and sensible compromise.

AR-10 type in .243? Not endorsing this one (I don’t know about the brand), just a link as an example.

AR-STONER LR-308 A3 Billet Upper Receiver Assembly 243 Winchester 22

The AR-Stoner LR-308 A3 Billet Upper Receiver Assembly chambered in 243 Winchester is ready to be assembled to a complete lower and fired! This LR-308...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[SigFan]

Roger that... I’m fighting a mental game at the moment. After the 410 incident, I struggled to get her back behind her 22LR. Some reactive targets (Water filled bottles) showed her that shooting is fun again so my plan is to get some 6” AR550 plates and set them up at various distances out to 100 yards so that she can focus on her form, trigger control and then enjoy fruit of her work with the satisfying KLANK. She has the motivation to hunt now so I’m trying to use that as leverage to push her past her comfort zone but too much pushing might turn her off to the thought entirely. Ahhh, the joys of parenting

Proper instruction on how to shoot should take care of the recoil sensitivity. Concentrate on shooting technique and don't worry about hunting until after she knows how to shoot well. Don't put the cart in front of the horse.

 

[1075tech]

My 16" Grendel with adjustable gas block doesn't have any more felt recoil than my mil-spec 5.56. My 12" Grendel has slightly more. Unless you're planning on hunting over 400 yards, it's plenty enough gun.

 

[Kent Goldings]

Does it have to be an MSR? You can a get single-shot rifles in a 243, 375 mag, and 44 mag. You can take a whitetail with any of those with forgiving recoil.

If you go with a bolt-gun, a muzzle-brake will mitigate a lot of recoil.

 

[thegatman]

243 would be the best. Lots of ammo at 100 grains. Still loud. Hearing protection a must. This will take deer. Shot placement important.

 

[1075tech]

My Grendel bolt gun has very little felt recoil. Howa 20" heavy barrel. It's threaded so you could put a brake on it for nearly zero recoil

 

[Vinson57]

6.8SPC

 

[spat]

Roger that... I’m fighting a mental game at the moment. After the 410 incident, I struggled to get her back behind her 22LR. Some reactive targets (Water filled bottles) showed her that shooting is fun again so my plan is to get some 6” AR550 plates and set them up at various distances out to 100 yards so that she can focus on her form, trigger control and then enjoy fruit of her work with the satisfying KLANK. She has the motivation to hunt now so I’m trying to use that as leverage to push her past her comfort zone but too much pushing might turn her off to the thought entirely. Ahhh, the joys of parenting

Could start her off on smaller game as well.

You can hunt stuff besides deer.

 

[Acer-m14]

Hunters Safety course instructor needs to quit .. WTF .. you have kids that know nothing .. no form on how to hold a gun .. never shot , gun don't fit them .. it should have been a 22 if anything .. WTH ..

now that she has a recoil issue its back to the basics .. 22 and work up ..

shit just a few weeks ago my friends 14 yr old boy was crying over the kick of a shotgun 20 or 12 cant remember at the moment .. yeah it hurt .. the butt was a inch from your shoulder when you shot it .. i could have put my hand in there i told him .. you know how to .. do it and stop half ass'ing it ..

 

[Acer-m14]

maybe some vids like this will help her too ..

 

[SigFan]

That’s amazing! Thanks for sharing.

maybe some vids like this will help her too ..

 

[stuckhere]

if you do not handload, 6.5 Grendel

 

[STS556]

I have used an MSR in .223 many times for deer hunting and it worked well. That set up is actually my coyote gun. 20" RRA varmint upper on a Stag lower and a Nikon 3.5-14x50 Prostaff scope. Took them down every time with very little recoil. I hunt in the Catskill Park region that is very densely wooded so all shots were well under 100 yards.

When I hunt with the .223, I take head shots. My wife will not allow deer heads mounted around the house so a head shot does not matter to me. Like others said, shot placement with the .223 is very critical. I am not too sure of a .223 would be effective for a double lung shot at much more than 100 yards on a big buck.

On the other hand, my regular deer rifle is a Remington 700 in .243. This will take a big buck down with a lung shot at a couple hundred yards. But it has a lot of recoil for smaller people.

 

[Edwardteach72]

6.5 grendel

 

[Vapor]

Weird, I seem to remember a 55 grain soft point breaking both shoulders on a big doe and was just barely recovered under the skin on the far shoulder.


I would go .50 BMG. You can't be too careful.


.223 would work just fine. Choose a 64 grain soft point, maybe a bonded bullet if you're worries about a big buck stepping out.

 

[cgrutt]

14 and older for big game in NY. Both she and you (or her Adult Mentor) need to have hunter safety certificate and big game license. Mentor needs min 3 yrs experience and must remain in direct control of youth during hunt. No hunting from tree stands.

.223 centerfire is allowed but prohibited in many other states. No more than 6 rounds and you need to use a 5 round mag. 6.8 SPC has 80% energy of 308 but only 50% recoil. You will need new bolt and mag on addition to upper if you go this route.

Teach her "push/pull" method to lower felt recoil. Think shooting a bow... push rifle away with support hand while simultaneously pulling back with trigger hand. Keep buttstock tight to shoulder or even bring it closer in to her chest while shooting... more mass to absorb recoil.

Video posted above was good but not legal in NY (shooter must be 12 or older). Personally I would only load one round at time and focus on trigger discipline (video did decent job with this) and use of safety after every shot (video bad with this and didn't even have youth engage safety before turning gun to check chamber and drop mag). I would also drop mag first before checking chamber and teach checking both visually and physically with fingers.

Most importantly have fun with your daughter and good luck!

 

[Bustedknees]

Id think the rig itself is too damn heavy for a youth to have a good steady hold to begin with. Start her with a youth bolt action that fits her..

 

[Acer-m14]

I would go .50 BMG. You can't be too careful.

and .50 is smaller then .223 .. its only two numbers ... and not 3


I confirmed that with AOC and she agreed

 

[meketrefe]

The 6.8 is a great hunting cartrige and if you get the 6.5 that too. In 18" minimum with a rifle porting.
Use a m16 or M4 style carrier and buffer and forget about adjustable blocks.
With 90gr-100gr bullets and your coaching and support she will be shooting targets like a champ all day long. Consider a professional instructor who is good with kids so they can get comfortable and you are there to simply assist following trough with the teachings.

 

[subsonic]

Roger that... I’m fighting a mental game at the moment. After the 410 incident, I struggled to get her back behind her 22LR. Some reactive targets (Water filled bottles) showed her that shooting is fun again so my plan is to get some 6” AR550 plates and set them up at various distances out to 100 yards so that she can focus on her form, trigger control and then enjoy fruit of her work with the satisfying KLANK. She has the motivation to hunt now so I’m trying to use that as leverage to push her past her comfort zone but too much pushing might turn her off to the thought entirely. Ahhh, the joys of parenting

I agree with 1911guy and spat. If she's that sensitive to .410 recoil how sensitive will she be to wounding a deer with .223? There's time yet for her to hunt small game this year with .22LR and .410 and work her back up to larger caliber. She should be reasonably comfortable shooting paper before she's shooting game. If I could have hunted squirrel from my deer stand I would have had a lot of squirrel and a lot more trigger pulls.

Shooting expired canned food or empties with .223 is a lot of fun too. But I wouldn't personally recommend an underpowered caliber to a junior hunter for big game.

 

[Jaywmustang]

Get a heavier gun to absorb some of the recoil.