Bullet Casting

[MilesTeg]

I've been meaning to start this thread for a while. I've done a lot of reading and research on the subject and have found this to be an interesting topic. The purpose of this thread is to generally talk about the topic, do's, don'ts, equipment, procedures, personal experiences. I will follow this post up with my personal progress on this topic but everyone feel free to add and discuss the topic.

 

[MilesTeg]

A couple years ago I switched to more handgun shooting than rifle. With this switch over I found myself going through a lot more ammo than I have ever had before. Because of this I started looking in to how to bring the price down so I can keep shooting in large quantities. This is when I stumbled on the subject of bullet casting. I have done a ton of reading and research on the topic and find it quiet a fascinating subject. I have yet to cast a single bullet but have been building a lead supply and equipment as money allows.

I'm allowed to mine the local indoor range for the scrap lead. This has been a mixed blessing. I enjoy being able to help the club out and also access to free lead. The down side is the trap a sand trap. It seems that after I melt the lead out of the trapped sand I have a lot of waste sand and not very much lead.

Not I have smelted/cleaned the lead a few times I seem to have a procedure that works for me pretty well. I have currently have enough clean ingots to fill one and a half 30cal ammo cans. I have plenty more lead/sand to melt down I just never seem to have enough time to melt down a large quantity. I really hope to have enough time this next summer to melt down the remaining scrap.

I will add pictures and comments on them when I get home later tonight.

 

[dsdmmat]

I used to cast bullets for 9mm, 38, 40, 41 and 45 one thing you have to make sure to do is to warm up your molds before casting. I usually did this by setting the mold on top of the pot. Another thing to do is use mold release it will help.

I always wore a half face respirator when casting. I am not sure if it helped but, it made me feel better.

I used paraffin as a way to keep the top of the led from frosting over it also helped to get the impurities out.

My normal mix was 9 pounds wheel weights to 1 pound 90/10 tin/lead solder.

The last time I cast my own bullets was 16 years ago. one day I may get back into in.

 

[MilesTeg]

I used to cast bullets for 9mm, 38, 40, 41 and 45 one thing you have to make sure to do is to warm up your molds before casting. I usually did this by setting the mold on top of the pot. Another thing to do is use mold release it will help.

I always wore a half face respirator when casting. I am not sure if it helped but, it made me feel better.

I used paraffin as a way to keep the top of the led from frosting over it also helped to get the impurities out.

My normal mix was 9 pounds wheel weights to 1 pound 90/10 tin/lead solder.

The last time I cast my own bullets was 16 years ago. one day I may get back into in.

Ya the pre-heating of molds seems to be a hot topic on the casting forum. A lot of people have been buying cheap hot plates from Walmart and using them with good success.

I very well might go the respirator route also. I know I got a little freaked out last year and had my lead level tested. So now I have a baseline to compare it from year to year.

I plan on using bee's wax in the casting pot for flux. For cleaning the lead into ingots I use saw dust 3 times and 2 rounds of paraffin.

I hate to tell you but if you get back into it the wheel weights have almost all dried up. You hear of some good hauls but they are coming less and less.

 

[dsdmmat]

Ya the pre-heating of molds seems to be a hot topic on the casting forum. A lot of people have been buying cheap hot plates from Walmart and using them with good success.

I very well might go the respirator route also. I know I got a little freaked out last year and had my lead level tested. So now I have a baseline to compare it from year to year.

I plan on using bee's wax in the casting pot for flux. For cleaning the lead into ingots I use saw dust 3 times and 2 rounds of paraffin.

I hate to tell you but if you get back into it the wheel weights have almost all dried up. You hear of some good hauls but they are coming less and less.

go to the wharfs and get the lead from boat hulls. It is normally pure so you will need to cut it with tin.

 

[MilesTeg]

go to the wharfs and get the lead from boat hulls. It is normally pure so you will need to cut it with tin.

I have read about that and haven't explored that avenue yet. Even if it's pure lead it would be worth it. Buy some super hard to mix in and it would still be dirt cheap lead.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

With my recent purchase of my makarov I have seen the real benefits of casting projectiles. There are very few projectiles available for 9x18 and the ones that are, are expensive. Even the plated stuff. I plan on getting into casting with 9x18 and see where it goes. I think powder coating your projectiles would be the best way to go as far as lubrication goes.

I'm familiar with working with molten metals and will tell you an easy way to heat up your molds is simply to use a blow torch right before you pour. The mold doesn't have to be ultra hot either. It's more for just getting any moisture out of the mold. Also as far as lubricating the mold just about anything will work. A cheap thing to use is PAM spray. Here I am pouring some silver.

 

[MilesTeg]

What I've read about pre heating the molds, they all say don't do it with a torch. Because most of the time they are aluminum molds you can warp them from the differential heat. Now I have seen people suggest using a torch on the sprue plate to heat that. The Walmart hot plates are like $20 so I will probably pick one up.

As far as lubricating the molds, it's common to use 2 cycle oil. This should be used very sparingly only to the bottom of the sprue plate and the alignment pins. If any gets into the mold cavity you will have wrinkles and have to reject the bullets.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

I would not use an aluminum mold period. Unless it was a very thick mold, aluminum's melting point is so low (relative to other metals) that the lead could actually burn right through it. Lead will also stick like a bitch to aluminum. If you absolutely had to use an aluminum mold of some sort you damn well better use some type of releasing agent. Steel is the best common metal mold you could use and I would recommend that. Also, while I'm sure 2 cycle oil will work great as a releasing agent keep cost in mind. Also the mess to clean up. Like I said, just about anything will work. PAM, vegetable oil, crisco, baby oil etc. All you're really doing is creating a temporary barrier between the 2 metals before the molten metal hardens. This temporary barrier need only exist for the very short amount of time before it burns up from the molten metal. We're talking milliseconds.

 

[kev74]

I would not use an aluminum mold period. Unless it was a very thick mold, aluminum's melting point is so low (relative to other metals) that the lead could actually burn right through it. Lead will also stick like a bitch to aluminum. If you absolutely had to use an aluminum mold of some sort you damn well better use some type of releasing agent.

Lead will not melt through aluminum. Lead will not stick to aluminum.

I use aluminum molds. I preheat the mold on the top of the pot. If I don't want to wait, I'll just cast bullets and discard the first few that don't look good.

Read the directions that come with the mold. Lee (aluminum molds) recomends smoking the molds with a butane lighter as a release agent, and using wax to lubricate the sprue plate and hinge. The Lee molds have worked grrat for me so far.

 

[dsdmmat]

I would not use an aluminum mold period. Unless it was a very thick mold, aluminum's melting point is so low (relative to other metals) that the lead could actually burn right through it. Lead will also stick like a bitch to aluminum. If you absolutely had to use an aluminum mold of some sort you damn well better use some type of releasing agent. Steel is the best common metal mold you could use and I would recommend that. Also, while I'm sure 2 cycle oil will work great as a releasing agent keep cost in mind. Also the mess to clean up. Like I said, just about anything will work. PAM, vegetable oil, crisco, baby oil etc. All you're really doing is creating a temporary barrier between the 2 metals before the molten metal hardens. This temporary barrier need only exist for the very short amount of time before it burns up from the molten metal. We're talking milliseconds.

Ehhh I have had no troubles using Lee six cavity aluminum molds, all of my casting was done with them (with the exception of the 41). The mica release agent that midway sells works great, molded 10s of thousands of bullets without issues.

 

[MilesTeg]

I would not use an aluminum mold period. Unless it was a very thick mold, aluminum's melting point is so low (relative to other metals) that the lead could actually burn right through it. Lead will also stick like a bitch to aluminum. If you absolutely had to use an aluminum mold of some sort you damn well better use some type of releasing agent. Steel is the best common metal mold you could use and I would recommend that. Also, while I'm sure 2 cycle oil will work great as a releasing agent keep cost in mind. Also the mess to clean up. Like I said, just about anything will work. PAM, vegetable oil, crisco, baby oil etc. All you're really doing is creating a temporary barrier between the 2 metals before the molten metal hardens. This temporary barrier need only exist for the very short amount of time before it burns up from the molten metal. We're talking milliseconds.

I'm not saying your wrong but I think your mixing ideologies between different types of casting. The most common molds for bullets are aluminum. There are steel and brass but they aren't as prevalent for a variety of reasons.

As far as release agent. A lot of people don't use any because the bullets can come out wrinkled and will get rejected. There are commercial products but it seems like not many people use it. The other method is to smoke your molds with a match or candle. The soot that is left over acts as the release agent.

The 2cycle oil isn't for a release agent. It's for lubricating the moving parts of the mold ensuring a more consistent cast.

Also a big point of bullet casting is temperature control. You need to keep the mold and lead in certain ranges to work the best. If the mold or the lead is too cold you will have wrinkle bullets and you might have trouble dropping them from the mold. If either are too hot then you will get frosted bullets, some people reject these bullets other people like them.

 

[dsdmmat]

I was into collecting pewter dragons around the same timeframe I was casting bullets. one of my long neck dragons(a really big one) was broken during the move to Germany. The head was broken off about 2 inches down the neck. I melted it down and cast it into bullets for my 1911.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Oops my bad. I was talking about the molds you use for pouring your ingots. Not for the bullets themselves. But the principals still stand. The reason you can get away with the BULLET molds is because they are thick. Also, the reason you can get away with not using a releasing agent is because the bullet molds are highly polished and not as porous as say a cup cake tray. Not to mention the shell like mold can physically be pulled away from the bullets. But lubricant on the bullet mold will not hurt.

Also, if lead gets hot enough it can indeed go through aluminum. Try pouring an ingot quantity of lead on a heated aluminum can. We just had a mix up on the which molds we were talking about. I just want everyone to stay safe.

 

[dsdmmat]

My lee ingot mold is also aluminum

 

[MilesTeg]

I use an aluminum ingot mold . I agree though thin aluminum stands no chance at molten lead. When I first started making ingots I used a cheap muffin pans from Walmart. I can tell you it didn't end well for the muffin pan. That's why I bought the proper ingot mold to stop the headache.

 

[dsdmmat]

I use an aluminum ingot mold . I agree though thin aluminum stands no chance at molten lead. When I first started making ingots I used a cheap muffin pans from Walmart. I can tell you it didn't end well for the muffin pan. That's why I bought the proper ingot mold to stop the headache.

I have used Teflon coated sheet metal muffin pans for ingots. My wife was not amused.

 

[kev74]

The melting point of aluminum is 1200 or so degrees. The melting point of lead is 620ish degrees. If your lead is causing the aluminum to melt, something is wrong.

The biggest thing safety wise is don't put anything that might contain moisture into molten lead - it will explode. That goes for porous ingots that have been sitting around, lead pipes that might be kinked, or any other scrap that might have been sitting around for a while

 

[kev74]

A squirt of oil in the muffin pans helps keep the ingots from sticking.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

What are you guys using for bullet lube? I'm all about speed so the powder coating looks good to me. Looks like you just warm the bullets a bit, tumble the bullets in the powder, put the bullets back in the oven and you're done. Looks faster and less messy than a lubisizer or tumbling in alox or something of the such.

 

[kev74]

I thin some alox with mineral spirits so its more wet than goopy. Put the bullets in a plastic tub, add a squirt of the special sauce, shake, and dump them on a sheet pan to dry. I'm only looking for a hint of that brown /gold color.

I've heard of others shaking the dried bullets in either talc or graphite powder to get rid of the tackiness, but I don't bother with that.

I've also heard of people using Rustolium spray paint, but haven't tried it.

 

[dsdmmat]

lee tumble lube

 

[MilesTeg]

I plan on powder coating my bullets. There's a good breakdown of how to do it on castboolits. Here's the quick breakdown of how to do it.
1. Container- You need one the has 5 in the triangle.
2. Airsoft BB's, the black ones work the best.
3. Powder- There's only certain powders that work for dry tumbling.
4. To get the powder to stick to the bullets you need to develop a static charge. The go to method now is to swirl the bullets/powder/bb's in circles for 30 seconds as hard/ fast as you can. Then shake the container up and down about 15 times.
5. Once the bullets are coated stand them up on a non stick surface. People use aluminum foil(dull side), parchment paper, silicone mats. Some people dump the bullets on to wire mesh and bake in that.
6. Cooking- temp is critical so make sure you get an oven thermometer to double check. Bake at 400F for 20 min.
7. Cool then size the bullets.

 

[MilesTeg]

These pictures are from one of my rang clean ups.
This is the bullet trap for the indoor range I'm a member of.

This picture shows how a shelf of lead will form where the back stop meets the sand. This is extremely difficult to get out and doesn't seem to yield much lead.

This picture shows what the standard range scrap look like.

I cleaned out the back stop twice only doing a 1/3 at a time. This was the max capacity that dare throw in my car and one time. Also I would run out of steam it was a very labor intensive process. All in all I ended up with 13 of those 5 gallon buckets.

 

[MilesTeg]

These are pictures from my last casting session.

This is what the pot looks like when it cools. I found that if you leave a heel in there the next session seems to start to melt faster. Also not the waste in the side can. This is mostly sand and jackets. I was surprised how much sand was trapped in the lead.


This picture show the finished clean ingots. You can see that the mold was pretty cold at first, from the wrinkles. Then warms up to a good temperature later on. I did pre heat the mold enough to drive out any moisture that could have been on it.


All and all I have the cleaning/smelting down pretty well now. I still hope to improve, but have yet to figure out how to do that. The company I work for runs a reclaimer that reclaims zinc from the dross. I might take a closer look at this machine when I have the time and money to build one.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

That's a healthy amount of lead! Well I've already switched up the lubing method if I ever get into casting. It seems Hi-tek is the way to go.

 

[MilesTeg]

I have shot commercial cast hi-tek coated bullets with good luck. I'm still planning on powder coating my bullets.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Yeah it seems power coated is just as good but a bit more difficult to get to be consistent.

 

[MilesTeg]

Yeah it seems power coated is just as good but a bit more difficult to get to be consistent.

I think the powder coat process has come a long ways from when it started. There are many people that are having good consistent results right off the bat now if you follow the documented procedure. With that said if I do have difficulties I will probably try out Hi-Tek.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Let me know how it goes. I'm still on the fence if it's not just cheaper for me to buy projectiles. The main caliber I would want to cast is for my newly acquired bulgarian makarov. 9x18 molds can be found (some expensive) but I don't see any sizing dies. I suppose a .355 die can be bored out to .364-.365. I made a lee .308 push through die into a .310 but I don't know if all of this is worth the trouble. I also wouldn't be able to source free lead very easily.