spat
.700 Nitro Express
That's why I used a different graduated approach.
If you're a paroled murderer, your shoplifting escapade is punished more severely than a first timer, but not as severely as a first time murderer.
What gun laws do you support.
- Thread starter Edwardteach72
- Start date
If you're a paroled murderer, your shoplifting escapade is punished more severely than a first timer, but not as severely as a first time murderer.
Last time...and dont make me go all caps.
Im not talking about people who may become violent criminals.
Im taking about people who have proven over many violent crimes that they cannot stop victimizing.
Ask any cop here, they know the guys im talking about. If youve never known a truly violent criminal you are lucky, ive known several.
Again, im not talking about small time battery or bar fights. Im talking about career criminals who have given up their rights and should be in jail if not for a screwed up prison system.
If you dont do the action you dont have the responsibility...period.
If you dont commit violent crimes, this law cannot affect you at all.
The only time this law comes into play is at the NICS check.
How can some random dudes NICS affect you?
Ive bought alot of guns but someone elses NICS has never been an issue.
Again, if youve never known a violent criminal you are lucky.
Another one my wife reminded me of.
Jim.....
Him and his GF wet on a serious heroin binge about 10 years ago. Their binge lasted a couple years.
During the second year, they began robbing people at gunpoint....a fake gun because Jim was already a felon so he couldnt get a real one easily.
The last robbery was the wrong one.
A Kwik Fill that my Army Ranger buddy Mike worked at.
Gun came out, Mike reacted by grabbing the gun and Jim and dragged them both over the counter. After Jim recovered from his injuries, he did 7 years in prison.
He got out a few years ago.
Four days later....yes, 4 days later he was stopped in a stolen car. When the cop found herin on him, Jim pulled away, grabbed a brick and tried to assault the cop but ran into a tazer instead. If Jim was able to own a gun after prison, he would 100% have come out of that stolen car shooting...100%
Almost forgot the end of Jims story.
His GF Amber rolled over on Jim and testified in court against him.
She served no time at all.
She went to rehab and soon after went to UB law school.
She is now an attorney at a local law office.
His GF Amber rolled over on Jim and testified in court against him.
She served no time at all.
She went to rehab and soon after went to UB law school.
She is now an attorney at a local law office.
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Glad to hear she turned her life around.
And I genuinely understand the conflict some people feel regarding what they would consider acceptable infringements for the so-called greater good of society.
I have personally never had an issue with a nics check, but I can't say I completely agree with the system. In my opinion it is something that the government has and will abuse. Good people I know have been wrongfully put on a hold. And if I'm not mistaken, in New York State if you get a hold you now have to wait 30 days instead of three.
I understand why you're taking the position you are, I happen to know and work with a lot of violent people, but it's still not something I can get behind in its current form. Anything that remotely looks like a registration is something I am adamantly against.
soylentBlue
.357 mag
Children and guns are a bad idea. The average firearm is too unwieldy for a child to operate in a safe and effective manner.
Children are much better suited to crew served weapons. The semi stationary characteristic of a mortar or heavy machine gun relies less on the child's physical strength and stamina and also builds teamwork.
Children are much better suited to crew served weapons. The semi stationary characteristic of a mortar or heavy machine gun relies less on the child's physical strength and stamina and also builds teamwork.
The very violent guy who gets out of prison will get a gun, no matter what the laws say. I'm taking about someone who has served out their sentence, period. Doesn't matter the circumstances. If the legal system wasn't so EFed up, the really violent criminal would be doing some serious time, in a serious place.Last time...and dont make me go all caps.
Im not talking about people who may become violent criminals.
Im taking about people who have proven over many violent crimes that they cannot stop victimizing.
Ask any cop here, they know the guys im talking about. If youve never known a truly violent criminal you are lucky, ive known several.
Again, im not talking about small time battery or bar fights. Im talking about career criminals who have given up their rights and should be in jail if not for a screwed up prison system.
BUT, it is not right for 2A to be trampled on because of the lack of a proper legal system.
Think about this for a minute, some poor kid gets jammed up in the 60's or 70's with a little bit of pot, and gets charged with a felony, which was not uncommon back then, he now is still considered a felon, and shouldn't be able to own a gun!! How is that right??
I think we are both actually on the same page here on the violent criminal. They should not be 'out and about', they should be locked up. Which is what I was trying to say in the 1st place
My original reply:
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Still not clear who decides what a victim is and why.
a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.
| synonyms: | sufferer, injured party, casualty, injured person, wounded person; dead person, fatality, loss; loser |
Both the what and why you're looking for.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
So why the coyote and illegal is a crime?
Or the cartels bringing 10tons of coke across the border? It is just sales transportation business.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Putting aside the extortion part on the other side of the border, and assuming we're not talking about human trafficking of the sexual or slave labor variety, there is loss on this side of the border. It's to the tune of the entire country being a victim and suffering loss. If you don't think there is loss when illegals come into the country then that's your opinion.
Cartels. I know you're asking in a Socratic manner but I think it's pretty clear that there are victims every step of the way of the drugs getting here including when they get to this side. And I'm not talking about the users. If you don't think so then again that's you're opinion.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
A victim is a person whose rights have been violated.Still not clear who decides what a victim is and why.
If you can identify the right and the violation, you have a victim and a crime.
If you can't identify the right or violation, then no victim, no crime.
And yes, this does mean that the worst criminals in history are governments. In fact even the best governments are worse than the worst individuals.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
The same reason your neighbors can't just occupy your living room without your permission. It's *your* property not theirs.
I dont think all felonies should be a disqualifier from owning a gun.
Drugs, white collar....even some "violent" crimes should not disqualify.
Im talking about the person, not the crime. There are people that enjoy killing.
Of course they can get a gun anyways but to possibly get them put away, there must be a law.
About the "lock em up", that would be great. Ive been begging politicians for 3 decades to lock up habitual criminals.
But most murderers get 25 to life.
Theyre out in 10-12 years.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
We know traffic of humans or drugs is illegal but when questioned about who is the victim and why some seem to aggre that while not intimidate harm there is long term harm.
At the same time others say if there is a consumer of those drugs (or prostitution) or whatever it is personal choice and there is no harm but
then that is contradicting that victims are there in long term. The person consuming is not doing immediate harm but with the money is funding
illegal activity in the long term.
That is why laws are in place and it cannot be left to arbitrary interpretation what is legal or not and who is a victim or not and why.
Like you guys I do not agree with many absurd laws and welcome the ideas and opinions but we have to be pragmatic and understand that some of these problems carry a lot of inter-dependencies and why there are no easy answers and we contradict ourselves like above.
No one is saying that should stay like that or that the current CJ system doesnt need a massive massive overhaul
So your argument is someone sold into sex slavery is the same as someone choosing to sell their body as a consenting adult?
Nice try but nope wrong
Why does the trafficking of drugs create victims? Because of the well "war on drugs"
Dont see all that kind of murders in the streets and whole city's being taken over (Mexican drug cartel) when it comes to oh idk crowing and selling corn.
What's the difference?? Well one is "legal" to grow, cultivate, and sell. The other is not and forced to rely on the most poor of areas to be forced by the cartels to grow and package for them, then transfer and then sell
Dont see all that kind of murders in the streets and whole city's being taken over (Mexican drug cartel) when it comes to oh idk crowing and selling corn.
What's the difference?? Well one is "legal" to grow, cultivate, and sell. The other is not and forced to rely on the most poor of areas to be forced by the cartels to grow and package for them, then transfer and then sell
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
no, lets say those are people who are helped across the border to work in those things voluntarily, nobody is immediately hurt.
Like those people consuming the drugs are doing it voluntarily, nobody is forcing them, nobody is immediately hurt.
Some say there are victims long term some others say there aren't. we contradict each other.
I have to go and do some actual work.
LET THE GAMES CONTINUE !! lol
no, lets say those are people who are helped across the border to work in those things voluntarily, nobody is immediately hurt.
Like those people consuming the drugs are doing it volunteer, nobody is immediately hurt.
Some say there are victims long term some others say there aren't. we contradict each other.
I have to go and do some actual work.
LET THE GAMES CONTINUE !! lol
Sorry but as soon as someone disregards personal choice such as oh hey I want to smoke crack into well they have become a victim long term, they have no leg to stand on.
Only situations I concede on that is opioid addictions that start due to medical prescribed narcotics. We all know that especially in the 90s Dr.s were handing out opioids like candy to "fix" everything leading to many having to turn to black market options and even heroin to get their fix after their Rx runs out... they have now become a victim. Someone at a party thinking hey I've never done heroin before I know its 99.9% addictive but i bet I'll be that 0.1% and try this is not a victim
How is the opiod addict a victim here ? THEY CHOSE to take the prescription in a manner inconsistant with the prescription. Their doctor says take 1 pill every 12 hours, and they take 1 every 6. Next day it's every 4. All of a sudden they're looking to score smack because the doctor won't refill their prescription. Your argument doesn't hold water.
I'm not saying that opiods can't be addivtive. They certainly can. And, some doctors DID over-prescribe them. But to lump the doctors who responsibly prescribed opiods with those that did not, and patients that abused prescriptions together is wrong.
Not all the time.
There are time that people get hooked up to morphine after surgery without so much as being asked (I remember I was prior to my knee surgery)
There are other times that people are prescribed something from their doctor not being told that it is an opioid or what other alternatives they could have.
Someone who is inadvertently addicted to opioids due to doctors just prescribing things left and right (no not all doctors, but there are sleaze balls)
Lmao your argument is bull shit dude? Who's to say everyone that ends up addicted only does because in your made up scenario they dont follow the prescribed orders, there are plenty that follow their doctor's orders and still become addicted and then turn to illegal drugs or buying other people pills after their prescription is over..
Your argument doesn't hold water especially since well it's not like it's not common knowledge that opioids are one of the most addicting things a person can take
The intent of a speeder is to speed, not kill someone. How does the intent change in your mind? Do you know how intent works in the law?
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
You sure about that?
IIRC there is atleast 1 other state that has this same type of law for handguns or even all guns but not 100% sure
Toecutter
.308 Win
People should be able to own machine guns, tanks, cannons, jets, rockets and any other weapon. if there is a certain piece of ordinance that needs to be banned do it correctly and amend the constitution.
Check it out! Independently targeting particle beam phalanx. Vwap! Fry half a city with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phase-plasma pulse rifles, RPGs, we got sonic electronic ball breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks -Hudson
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Yes.