2A Lawsuits and their progress we have here in NY

camper4lyfe

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TJ12010

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John Stark said:
I appreciate that you put "allow" open carry in the quotation marks as you did, because that signals the exact problem we've had going on since the Heller decision. The reporting on Heller, McDonald, Cetano, and now Bruen has been abysmal.

In Heller, Scalia specifically and clearly stated: "open carry is the right protected."

That essentially means that there are very few restrictions on the Right to Bear. The RKBA was defined by the Court essentially in the same terms as most other Rights.

Heller also essentially made it clear that a State absolutely can require a permit to carry concealed, and have requirements that need to be fulfilled in order to get that permit; however, that process has to follow Due Process and Equal Rights before the law, and ought to be the same, uniform, and fair process for all seeking that concealed carry permit.

It should be noted that the Supremes did NOT say that a State MUST require a permit to conceal carry, and more than half the States in the Union have opted for "Constitutional Carry" (a bit of a misnomer IMO, but meh) and allow permitless concealed carry (with varying requirement on both or either).

Whether a state can ban concealed carry completely is an interesting question. I would say there is certainly "history, text, and tradition" that concealed carry had restrictions, and even considered unlawful and criminal; and that there is probably some "history, text, and tradition" showing that banning concealed carry prior to the Civil War exists. However, is that "history, text, and tradition" enough to completely allow concealed carry to be banned?

I'm not sure there is based on the evidence I have reviewed in the past. Further, there are questions that would need to be asked in light of out modern times that were probably pertinent when the Second Amendment was ratified, but for which we may have little or no evidence.

For example, we know law enforcement officers can and do carry concealed; off duty cops is the obvious data point, but in our modern times we also have undercover law enforcement, and the clear need for them to conceal carry in their duties. Spies and other government officials (including politicians) also are allowed to conceal carry. If law enforcement and other government officials can have the special means to carry concealed, at that point we would have to ask if that trickles down to the plebes. I would say obviously yes, since what is good for the goose is good for the gander, but the "law is an ass" (i.e., stubborn and willful) so that is another consideration.

So, the question has to be asked, is there "history, text, and tradition" and other precedent that would make it plain that concealed carry was a thing when the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was ratified, and that it could not be banned outright?

This is why Scalia in Hiller was digging around in English Common Law, and went back and referenced the English Civil War where the Protestants won the Right to never be disarmed by the Crown. Etc. and so on.

My opinion on whether concealed carry could be outright banned for everyone by a state is no, but I could be proven wrong... maybe.

My opinion on whether it can be banned for some but allowed for others is a hell no, as Heller clearly requires the States to grant a concealed license as long as the process is fair and uniform. If they offer concealed to anyone (all States do), then all are at least theoretically allowed to apply and obtain the permit if they fit the (strict scrutiny) standards required by the Supremes.

That was what Dick Heller was suing for, after all, and he won.
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Thank you for your insightful reply. I found it thought provoking.
 
Jmac00

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gunpoliticsny said:
NYC pistol licensing scheme is unconstitutional.
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does anyone really pay any attention to the concealed carry laws? I have been to NYC many times back in the early eighties. I alway took my gun. alway carry concealed. Even a few cops knew I had my gun, no one really cared back in those days.

Im just saying, protect yourself, keep your situational awareness on High at all times. And do what you feel is appropriate. Im never going to be back in NYshitty ever again, so I really don't care. But the more your governor squeezes, the less she will be able to hold the more will slip through
 
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Jmac00 said:
does anyone really pay any attention to the concealed carry laws? I have been to NYC many times back in the early eighties. I alway took my gun. alway carry concealed. Even a few cops knew I had my gun, no one really cared back in those days.

Im just saying, protect yourself, keep your situational awareness on High at all times. And do what you feel is appropriate. Im never going to be back in NYshitty ever again, so I really don't care. But the more your governor squeezes, the less she will be able to hold the more will slip through
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The 80s are much different than now. Back then a lot less people cared about you having a gun. Even in the city as you pointed out.

Now everyone, even the police are chastised for having guns in NY Shitty.
 
SonOfSun

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ManualF150 said:
The 80s are much different than now. Back then a lot less people cared about you having a gun. Even in the city as you pointed out.

Now everyone, even the police are chastised for having guns in NY Shitty.
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You could also get on an airplane without having to take your shoes off, go through a body scan, an light up a cig inside the plane. I want the 80s back.
 
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Christian v. Nigrelli update. The remaining portions of the lawsuit that the court has not acted on (a few sensitive locations) have been stayed pending resolution of the Antonyuk appeal. Not surprising but still disappointing. From judge Sinatra who has been our MVP so far.
this Court hereby STAYS the resolution of those portions of Plaintiffs' Motion for Preliminary Injunction (Dkt. 19), in the interests of judicial economy, pending resolution of the appeal in Antonyuk as to these issues.
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Antonyuk v. Nigrelli update:

Plaintiffs have made an emergency application for immediate administrative relief and to vacate stay of preliminary injunction issued by the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit


This will go to Justice Sotomayor who will either decide on her own or refer it to the full court.
 
Saltwater60

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m1_ping said:
Antonyuk v. Nigrelli update:

Plaintiffs have made an emergency application for immediate administrative relief and to vacate stay of preliminary injunction issued by the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit


This will go to Justice Sotomayor who will either decide on her own or refer it to the full court.
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Why her? She will deny it in her own. That’s fucking stupid. Why not another justice? What a fucking joke.
 
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