A cop shooting in Brooklyn Park, Minnesota---- More riots and more shootings.

[Edwardteach72]

The fool has said there is no God. It is a waste of time to talk to an anti God bigot as you have shown yourself to be. Mock all you want, many before you have and after death in hell have lifted up their eyes in torments and begged to get out with no hope, your only hope is now tough guy.

 

[dwa12479]

Tunnel vision, if you've never been in a HIGH stress situation and experienced it first hand there is no way to explain it.

Beat me to it. Thats by far the simplest explanation and I'd dare say the only. He tried to run, her adrenaline dump sent her straight to tunnel vision, and didn't realize what she had done til it was too late. It was a tragic mistake that unfortunately will ruin many lives. The deceased, his family, hers, her family, and the countless innocent people that will take damage in the ongoing "mostly peaceful" protests.

 

[Darth]

The fool has said there is no God. It is a waste of time to talk to an anti God bigot as you have shown yourself to be. Mock all you want, many before you have and after death in hell have lifted up their eyes in torments and begged to get out with no hope, your only hope is now tough guy.

Which God did those pray to? Allah?

That's a very compelling argument I'd use too if I was completely full of shit. "And if they don't believe you, they are fools."

That's all the proof I need!

 

[dwa12479]

Great, now the thread has an incorrect title. Maybe the discussion of personal beliefs in other worldy beings can get its own thread?

 

[spat]

spat
And my point is that this doesn't work out well for the officer either.

I can't for the life of me understand why you would *want* to pull someone over for a license plate in 2020 ?

Because its the law? because its common for criminals to pull thier plates? Because they were doing thier job?


Either these officers were really worried about their own lives (risking your life for a license plate ticket, no thanks). Or they were just on a power trip.


They conducted a felony stop the way they were trained to . However, We have yet to see why they did. They may have been wrong in doing so .


The only difference is that the cops are the ones who initiated things.

Thats thier job. They pulled him over and were attempting to do an on scene investigation when The LT refused to comply with simple orders.


Way safer and easier for everyone if you just didn't notice the missing plate to begin with....

His job is to notice the missing plate, His job is to investigate why the plate was missing .


If the felony stop was not legit then he fucked up big time and needs to lose his job .



But again , your focusing on the procedures of the cops. My focus is on the noncompliant asshole in the car . it was his actions that escalated the stop . Lets say the stop was completely wrong. maybe it was. That isnt what escalated the situation . His refusal to exit the car is what got him pepper sprayed. It could have gotten him shot. The cops were following procedure the way they were trained to . By driving a car without plates, refusing to pull over and exit the car , by refusing to answer basic questions and commands, The man was exhibiting behavior that is consistent with a person on drugs or drunk.

Im not saying the stop was legit . I dont know what the cop was thinking . Im saying the actions of the guy made things far worse than they had to be. Had he followed orders he would have been cuffed until police could sort out what was going on , given a ticket and been on his way.

That doesn't justify the felony stop in any way. It still may have been wrong , and you may be correct on that part. But obstruction , and refuseing to obey a lawfull order is always going to escalate the situation .

Following the use of force continuum , when the person refuses verbal orders and warnings the officers are trained to escalate to the next level , using non lethal devices or physical techniques. Thats the way police officers are trained . These officers followed their training , with the possible exception of the felony stop .

Even if the police are dead wrong with the stop, this guy just made it a lot worse for himself . one mistake on the officers part, and he could have been killed . resisting arrest and obstruction can easily become life threating if the cop misreads your motion to grab keys , wallet, or a cell phone is misinterpreted . How many videos have we seen where this has happened?

You keep defending this by saying "that's what they're trained for" and "that's the job".

You don’t get that *that* is the problem.

Nobody should be asking you to risk your life over a missing license plate, and if they do you should tell them to fuck right the hell off and get a different job.

If you choose to risk your life over BS because "it's the job" then don’t expect any sympathy from me when it goes badly for you.

Risking your life to save someone elses is a noble act, and deserves praise.

Risking it over paperwork and unpaid taxes is foolish and you deserve ridicule for putting yourself in such a situation.

I also have a massive problem when a free citizen being "non compliant" is a justification for brutality.

In a free country citizens are not subject to follow the arbitrary orders of their rulers. If you need them to do that to do your job, then ask nicely, but if they say "no" then the job doesn't get done.

99% of criminals get away 99% of the time. I am not willing to live in a police state just so that we can drop that to 98%.

 

[spat]

Which God did those pray to? Allah?

That's a very compelling argument I'd use too if I was completely full of shit. "And if they don't believe you, they are fools."

That's all the proof I need!

Nah, there can only be one god.

The major religions all worship the same guy, they just disagree about the details.

It's like if Samuel L Jackson was god, but people are fighting wars because one group worships Nick Fury, one Mace Windu, and another Jules Winnfield.

None of them are really wrong, but none really see the whole picture either.

Then the polytheists mistake all the characters for different gods and try to worship them all.


In the real world, there can only ever be one omniscient being in the universe, and anything less than an omniscient being cannot be a god.

So people aren't really arguing about which god is the real one. There is only one, there can only be one, and they are arguing about some relatively insignificant details that they can never really understand anyway.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Joe Pesci is god.

 

[Rap]

Not the first time a cop has done this. It’s a risk of having two devices with similar feel that do dissimilar things.

Has nothing to do with race.

As usual 99% of these cases involve a suspect acting like a complete twat. My sympathy for people resisting arrest when the arrest is legitimate is very, very close to 0.

You consider homicide to be the appropriate penalty for resisting arrest?

 

[drowhawk]

The government is literally admitting to the existence of UFO's and other worldly technology and we are distracted by a geriatric yelling about double barrelled shotguns and a virus with a higher survival rate than using the toilet.


I feel like at this point any reasonable person defending the officer in the case is either refusing to acknowledge the recklessness and negligence she engaged in, or is minimizing the life of another, simply based on their choices. I did dumb shit as a kid too. I'm glad nobody killed me.

 

[Blimey]

You consider homicide to be the appropriate penalty for resisting arrest?

Of course not. But it is not legal anywhere in this country to kill somebody for resisting arrest (it is legal to kill somebody who, while they are resisting arrest, attempts to kill others), nor is that what happened here.

What happened here was an obvious accident, even negligence.

Nonetheless, it's going to be difficult to get a conviction based on the letter of the law (I quoted it above).

Now protesters are harrassing the prosecution. Who are they helping?

Prosecutor in Daunte Wright's case speaks out for the first time

Peter Orput, the prosecutor handling Daunte Wright's case, told DailyMail.com, 'I'd just ask, have faith in me as a prosecutor. I'm not giving anything away'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Grimscale]

Now protesters are harrassing the prosecution. Who are they helping?

They are helping themselves.
I seriously doubt they give a damn about either side of the case. They just want to sow as much confusion and chaos as possible to "get their jollies", and maybe get some free shit.

 

[holdover]

You consider homicide to be the appropriate penalty for resisting arrest?

According to the law, yes. An officer is allowed to use as much force as necessary to apprehend a suspect, up to and including deadly force.

 

[spat]

According to the law, yes. An officer is allowed to use as much force as necessary to apprehend a suspect, up to and including deadly force.

Pretty sure that's not accurate.

Even for a cop, deadly force can only be used to prevent death or serious injury.

You can't just shoot the guy your chasing because he's faster than you.

In fact, on paper, I think the deadly force rules are the same badge or not. In practice we know it's quite different, but that's just prosecutors and juries not doing their job correctly.

 

[Toecutter]

Pretty sure that's not accurate.

Even for a cop, deadly force can only be used to prevent death or serious injury.

You can't just shoot the guy your chasing because he's faster than you.

In fact, on paper, I think the deadly force rules are the same badge or not. In practice we know it's quite different, but that's just prosecutors and juries not doing their job correctly.

In this case I think she was justified, there was two officers hanging out of a car while he was fighting trying to drive away .In fact if she didn't yell taser and just shot him I doubt there would of been charges.

Cops had made much worse mistakes and walked free. Like that cop who killed a 17 year old kid because he answered the door with a Nintendo controller. She should be in a prison cell.

 

[holdover]

Pretty sure that's not accurate.

Even for a cop, deadly force can only be used to prevent death or serious injury.

You can't just shoot the guy your chasing because he's faster than you.

In fact, on paper, I think the deadly force rules are the same badge or not. In practice we know it's quite different, but that's just prosecutors and juries not doing their job correctly.

Its dead nuts accurate. You just misinterpreted what I said.

Yes the same rules apply

An officer can use any force Necessary to effect an arrest so long as its justified. No of course you cant use lethal force if the guy is just running away unless its justifyed as in a fleeing felon, not for shoplifting a snickers


If a shop lifter who stole a snickers bar physically resists arrrest and is getting the better of you , You are now in danger of losing your weapon if you lose consciousness, you can no longer defend yourself or others .

The use of force continuum allows officers to use greater force than is being used against you. if you use fists, I can use a baton, if you use a baton I can use a firearm.

A shoplifer can escalate the situation by resisting to where the officer is justifed in useing lethal force.

How many people were shot by officers over a moving violation? You've seen the videos. Shit gets escalated, Moving violation turns into say an arrest for a minor warrant or something, Dickhead resists a little to much and before you know it they are rolling on the ground where theres a gun involved which could be used against you.

Its like a home owner with a trespasser , no you cant shoot him for trespassing, But if it escalates , and he grabs for your gun or comes at you , it changes everything. I think you know what I mean.

 

[spat]

Its dead nuts accurate. You just misinterpreted what I said.

Yes the same rules apply

An officer can use any force Necessary to effect an arrest so long as its justified. No of course you cant use lethal force if the guy is just running away unless its justifyed as in a fleeing felon, not for shoplifting a snickers


If a shop lifter who stole a snickers bar physically resists arrrest and is getting the better of you , You are now in danger of losing your weapon if you lose consciousness, you can no longer defend yourself or others .

The use of force continuum allows officers to use greater force than is being used against you. if you use fists, I can use a baton, if you use a baton I can use a firearm.

A shoplifer can escalate the situation by resisting to where the officer is justifed in useing lethal force.

How many people were shot by officers over a moving violation? You've seen the videos. Shit gets escalated, Moving violation turns into say an arrest for a minor warrant or something, Dickhead resists a little to much and before you know it they are rolling on the ground where theres a gun involved which could be used against you.

Its like a home owner with a trespasser , no you cant shoot him for trespassing, But if it escalates , and he grabs for your gun or comes at you , it changes everything. I think you know what I mean.

Saying you can use deadly force if it's justified is kinda a silly statement.

Of course you can. That's what justified means.

I can use deadly force eating a snickers if it's justified.

That's also not what you said, you said they can use deadly force to effect the arrest.

That's not the same as using deadly force to defend themselves because their attempt to effect the arrest has turned into a threat to their life.

 

[holdover]

Saying you can use deadly force if it's justified is kinda a silly statement.

Of course you can. That's what justified means.

I can use deadly force eating a snickers if it's justified.

That's also not what you said, you said they can use deadly force to effect the arrest.

That's not the same as using deadly force to defend themselves because their attempt to effect the arrest has turned into a threat to their life.

Your not getting it. Whatever means necessary to effect an arrest. If you resist, I can escalate to next level. It doesn't matter what the charge is at that point. If you continue to escalate, I continue to escalate beyond that, Those are the rules. up to and including the use of deadly force.

Thats why you see so many people resisting arrest get shot by police, not because of the color of thier skin. 90% or better of people being shot is because they were resisting arrest. You see that on police videos all time

 

[MothMan]

This woman took the stand yesterday. Didn’t look good. Almost embarrassing to watch. Once she took the shot she should’ve owned it and not apologized while testifying. Some people probably aren’t meant to be LEOs.

Kim Potter Trial, Dec. 17: Potter Breaks Down On The Stand, 'I'm Sorry It Happened'

The defense rested its case on Friday afternoon, following emotional testimony from former officer Kim Potter.

minnesota.cbslocal.com

More than some.

 

[spat]

Your not getting it. Whatever means necessary to effect an arrest. If you resist, I can escalate to next level. It doesn't matter what the charge is at that point. If you continue to escalate, I continue to escalate beyond that, Those are the rules. up to and including the use of deadly force.

Thats why you see so many people resisting arrest get shot by police, not because of the color of thier skin. 90% or better of people being shot is because they were resisting arrest. You see that on police videos all time

View attachment 139091

And you don't get that resisting doesn't necessarily imply continued escalation.

Running away is resisting. No amount of running justifies deadly force.

 

[Grimscale]

Whatever means necessary to effect an arrest. If you resist, I can escalate to next level. It doesn't matter what the charge is at that point.

So when you're wrongfully arresting someone, and they resist, you can kill them.

Nice

 

[holdover]

And you don't get that resisting doesn't necessarily imply continued escalation.

It absolutely does. Your totally mistaken here Spat. Every law enforcement officer is trained to use minimum force necessary and to escalate above the suspect resistance to effect an arrest. The officer and the suspect can initiate an escalation.

 

[holdover]

So when you're wrongfully arresting someone, and they resist, you can kill them.

Nice

Why would you wrongfully arrest anyone?

 

[Grimscale]

Why would you wrongfully arrest anyone?

that's a very good question.
But it does happen.
Far more frequently than the government would like to admit.

 

[holdover]

Running away is resisting. No amount of running justifies deadly force.

Your wrong again, An officer can shoot a fleeing felon. The felon is assumed by law, to be dangerous. Thats writtten law not my opinion , If he poses a threat to the officer or general public , yes you can use lethal force to stop him. No He cant shoot a shoplifter, for shoplifting, But he can shoot him if the situation escalates into a physical encounter where the officer either fights to exhaustion or is in jepordy of losing his weapon, which must be demonstrated by facts in court. If I chase a big man down and tackle him , Its all good, if he kicks me in the face on the ground , Im still good as long as I have my faculties, If he kicks me in the face again and I cant get up because Im way to dizzy, Im in danger of losing my weapon, and If I pass out , I could be killed by my own gun, at this point the shoplifter has moved way beyond shoplifting and is now assaulting a police officer in the course of his duties , If it continues, I may have to shoot him if I cant gain control. This is established law. If your trying to say I cant shoot someone over a misdemeanor, Your partially correct so as long as things dont escalate from that point. the initial charge means nothing, its what happens during the arrest that can change the whole situation. There are different degrees of resisting arrest

This is why people scream police brutality, They dont understand the law. (not slighting you)

 

[spat]

It absolutely does. Your totally mistaken here Spat. Every law enforcement officer is trained to use minimum force necessary and to escalate above the suspect resistance to effect an arrest. The officer and the suspect can initiate an escalation.

So, if a guy is running away from you, that's resisting right ?

Just running. Not posing a threat to anyone.

No amount of running will justify deadly force. You can chase the guy for 20 miles and you're still not justified in shooting him in the back.

 

[holdover]

So, if a guy is running away from you, that's resisting right ?

Just running. Not posing a threat to anyone.

No amount of running will justify deadly force. You can chase the guy for 20 miles and you're still not justified in shooting him in the back.

If hes not a felon,not a threat, thats correct. So long as the circumstances dont change during the chase.

 

[spat]

If hes not a felon,not a threat, thats correct. So long as the circumstances dont change during the chase.

Even if he's running away with a bag full of $20k cash he just swiped off the back of an armored car, if he wasn't violent, then you can't use deadly force.

 

[holdover]

Thats a judgement call, The courts say that a felon on the run is considered desperate and capable of violence. hijacking a car hi speed chase ect..

 

[holdover]

https://scholarship.law.missouri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2374&context=mlr

 

[spat]

https://scholarship.law.missouri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2374&context=mlr

NY law is very different than MI law.

1. A police officer or a peace officer, in the course of effecting or
attempting to effect an arrest,

...
...
...

except that
deadly physical force may be used for such purposes only when he or she
reasonably believes that:
(a) The offense committed by such person was:
(i) a felony or an attempt to commit a felony involving the use or
attempted use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a
person.

I would not want to be an officer in NY attempting to explain why he shot some non-violent guy who was running away in the back.

The guy might have a grandmother with a dark enough complexion that you'll be fucked.