Air Force Top Enlisted Leader Says Trainees Carrying Real Rifles at Boot Camp Is 'Desired End State'

[Deplorable Me]

Air Force Top Enlisted Leader Says Trainees Carrying Real Rifles at Boot Camp Is 'Desired End State'​

Air Force Top Enlisted Leader Says Trainees Carrying Real Rifles at Boot Camp Is 'Desired End State'

Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force David Flosi said during a media roundtable at the annual Air and Space Forces Association conference in Maryland on Tuesday that there's an end goal to get real weapons in recruits' hands.

www.military.com

My sister is retired USAF, nurse. As part if field exercises and flight line defense the medical staff dug trench defenses. She qualified on the M-60, M-16, M-9 and grenade launcher of the day. Now USAF boots don't even carry rifles in basic? I had a USAF friend who was on the perimeter during Tet in Vietnam. Senior military leadership has lost it.

 

[Beerman]

It’s far easier to dismantle an entire country when their military is less militant than a PTA meeting.

 

[FP1201]

Couple of thoughts:
The Air Force has always been the "work smarter, not harder" branch of the Military, and to work smarter, one needs to be smarter, which is why their recruiting and retention standards are different.

Basic Training is a giant mind control exercise designed to break the recruit down, then build them back to a cohesive Soldier that will mesh with others...the Carrying of that Rifle makes them responsible and cognoscente, failure to adhere results in very negative repercussions, and the Soldiers end MOS doesn't really matter as we're ALL Riflemen.

The ONLY place Live ammunition is allowed are Live Fire Ranges, and IT IS tightly controlled, even at Duty Stations/Installations across the Country, there isn't any live ammunition allowed outside that issued to Security/Law Enforcement.

Given the DEI/Wokeness/blatant Homosexuality/Trans/Gen Z work ethic/poorly educated/etc. that's rampant and persuasive in ALL Branches, it's really a fucking wonder we get anything done at all, yet we do.

IMHO: Recruits irrespective the Branch SHOULD be Carrying operational Weapons without Ammunition (except specific training) that they become familiar with, responsible for, and held accountable for said firearm.

 

[Zerex]

Kama sutra wants to teach the soldiers................... to be hopeful and if feeling that they are on target to be happy that they have no ammo.

 

[2WheelGnnr]

ISNT that what BOOT CAMP IS......carrying a rifle around in the rain and sleeping with it to make sure you can handle it and yourself......oh man............wood cork gun models for everyone.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

I may have a different take but there's only so much time in a day and only so many weeks for basic training etc. there are only so many resources, time, training schedules etc.

The navy and air Force really don't need to carry rifles every day of basic. Yes they absolutely should some times and absolutely need to be exposed to it and get comfortable and minimally proficient. That's an important skill that needs to be taught.

But no air force and navy do not need to be dragging around rifles 24/7 in boot camp. It's not realistic in their day to day jobs and responsibilities and they should be focused on other tasks too.

It's a balance. They need to learn to be moderately capable of defending themselves and their base and changing their mentality from civilian to military but these are the people who generally are going to spend their enlistments reviewing satellite photos, fixing airplanes, sitting in offices, doing air traffic control etc. they need to learn how to be military and develop those behaviors.

No different from someone who works on a submarine as a sonar operator. Will probably never carry a rifle ever after basic training. That guy needs to be better at his job and learn additional skills like firefighting, medical and damage control.

The people who want to shoot shit And blow things up typically either join security forces or the Army or Marines. I think in security forces school they are much more likely to carry rifles every day.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

We marched with M-14 with fixed bayonets in high school starting at age 14. Our cadet officers carried sabers. We had a rifle range and a rifle team. Our drill team lofted a Garand with fixed bayonet from the front of the platoon to the last guy in the rear, end over end, every St. Patrick's Day in front of St Patrick's cathedral.

USCG boot camp I think I carried my rifle sometime of every day after the first 2 weeks. Our rifles were secured in our squad bay. Heck, the Recruit Company Commander and the other recruit leaders carried cutlasses.

 

[repete]

I may have a different take but there's only so much time in a day and only so many weeks for basic training etc. there are only so many resources, time, training schedules etc.

The navy and air Force really don't need to carry rifles every day of basic. Yes they absolutely should some times and absolutely need to be exposed to it and get comfortable and minimally proficient. That's an important skill that needs to be taught.

But no air force and navy do not need to be dragging around rifles 24/7 in boot camp. It's not realistic in their day to day jobs and responsibilities and they should be focused on other tasks too.

It's a balance. They need to learn to be moderately capable of defending themselves and their base and changing their mentality from civilian to military but these are the people who generally are going to spend their enlistments reviewing satellite photos, fixing airplanes, sitting in offices, doing air traffic control etc. they need to learn how to be military and develop those behaviors.

No different from someone who works on a submarine as a sonar operator. Will probably never carry a rifle ever after basic training. That guy needs to be better at his job and learn additional skills like firefighting, medical and damage control.

The people who want to shoot shit And blow things up typically either join security forces or the Army or Marines. I think in security forces school they are much more likely to carry rifles every day.

Just my .02 cents.

You have some valid points, but it's not just "dragging around rifles", it learning RESPONSABILTY! Being responsible for the security of a weapon is a big thing for young people that have never been held responsible for anything.

 

[Modean]

Air Force Top Enlisted Leader Says Trainees Carrying Real Rifles at Boot Camp Is 'Desired End State'​

Air Force Top Enlisted Leader Says Trainees Carrying Real Rifles at Boot Camp Is 'Desired End State'

Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force David Flosi said during a media roundtable at the annual Air and Space Forces Association conference in Maryland on Tuesday that there's an end goal to get real weapons in recruits' hands.

www.military.com

My sister is retired USAF, nurse. As part if field exercises and flight line defense the medical staff dug trench defenses. She qualified on the M-60, M-16, M-9 and grenade launcher of the day. Now USAF boots don't even carry rifles in basic? I had a USAF friend who was on the perimeter during Tet in Vietnam. Senior military leadership has lost it.

Good lord, we practically lived with our M-16s during Army BCT back in the day.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

You have some valid points, but it's not just "dragging around rifles", it learning RESPONSABILTY! Being responsible for the security of a weapon is a big thing for young people that have never been held responsible for anything.

I agree

 

[Cavalry]

The ONLY place Live ammunition is allowed are Live Fire Ranges, and IT IS tightly controlled, even at Duty Stations/Installations across the Country, there isn't any live ammunition allowed outside that issued to Security/Law Enforcement.

While this generally true, its been tribal knowledge for decades about the blank and piece of cleaning rod loophole. Kids will do stupid shit.
Other than basic training where you were literally searched for ammo when leaving the range, actual duty station live fire was the honor system. You were not suppose to take live rounds, but everyone did and ND off the range were unheard of.

 

[Robin]

What are they afraid of.
Robin

 

[FP1201]

While this generally true, its been tribal knowledge for decades about the blank and piece of cleaning rod loophole. Kids will do stupid shit.
Other than basic training where you were literally searched for ammo when leaving the range, actual duty station live fire was the honor system. You were not suppose to take live rounds, but everyone did and ND off the range were unheard of.

Long as residual turn in at ASP was close to issue...
Drum has greatly increased the scrutiny with increased oversight...
Cleaning Rod and a Blank will penetrate and ostensibly kill a Raccoon, but they run off to die...
I had a Colt .22 Conversion that I carried afield...two weeks in the Woods eating MRE's and the prospect of fresh meat really sounds good, even if it's 'possum.

 

[Cavalry]

I had a Colt .22 Conversion that I carried afield.

That my friend, is pure genius. We use to buy cheap throwaway pistols for our procurement needs. I have a Jennings .25ACP kicking around someplace, think I gave $40 for it lol.