Ammo background check law

[Celt]

I seem to recall coming back from @spat that I had to pass through a permanent "border patrol" checkpoint.
How long before heil hochul and the rest of the tyrannical dems in Albany erect permanent checkpoints on all of the major roads into NY where they claim you are REQUIRED to allow them to search your vehicle?

The leftists already have NYSP partolling the highways out of Pa looking for potential "gun owners". This is a common occurrence.

 

[spat]

If you look at a map of the US most Major citys are on the coast or border canada and mexico, approximately 75% -80% of the population.

"The border" should be only publicly owned property that shares a boundary with a foreign country.

not 100 miles of privately owned property near it.

 

[Saltwater60]

I thought there was an agreement between the NYSP and Governor's office when they couldn't get the database done...?! If the laws haven't changed, and the database is still NOT operational, then NOTHING has changed!!!

Like I said... Who cares really, it's just another lunch in another state. There's plenty just a short ride away

I'm searching right after this post for NC Gun Stores

From what I understand is that the MOU said we won’t spend anymore money on it. An MOU isn’t a law and can be modified at anytime by both parties or likely even one. I’m not sure what legal biding an MOU has.

 

[Saltwater60]

I seem to recall coming back from @spat that I had to pass through a permanent "border patrol" checkpoint.
How long before heil hochul and the rest of the tyrannical dems in Albany erect permanent checkpoints on all of the major roads into NY where they claim you are REQUIRED to allow them to search your vehicle?

Just entering NYS isn’t probable cause to search anything. Anyone asks to search my car ever the answer is no and then I will start video recording and repeat that this officer just asked to search my car or myself and I said no.

 

[spat]

Just entering NYS isn’t probable cause to search anything. Anyone asks to search my car ever the answer is no and then I will start video recording and repeat that this officer just asked to search my car or myself and I said no.

Try that at that border checkpoint and you'll find out just how much the federal government DGAF about constitutional rights.

They need no PC. They don't even need a hunch.

In practice they just wave you through without even coming to a complete stop, but they *can* just tear your whole car apart while giving you a full cavity search and just leave you with a pile of parts if they feel like it.

Because, despite being 30 miles from the nearest point of foreign soil, and on an interstate highway between 2 major US cities, and the majority of people passing through not having ever left the US, it is considered a border crossing, and they can search anything they want at a border crossing.

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

Did a background check on .22lr and the Remington Thunderbolts suck

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

Some of you act so surprised on these laws. We have a governor that cannot understand normal thoughts.

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

Some of you act so surprised on these laws. We have a governor that cannot understand normal thoughts.

So They're qualified to be prez

 

[byron]

Try that at that border checkpoint and you'll find out just how much the federal government DGAF about constitutional rights.

They need no PC. They don't even need a hunch.

In practice they just wave you through without even coming to a complete stop, but they *can* just tear your whole car apart while giving you a full cavity search and just leave you with a pile of parts if they feel like it.

Because, despite being 30 miles from the nearest point of foreign soil, and on an interstate highway between 2 major US cities, and the majority of people passing through not having ever left the US, it is considered a border crossing, and they can search anything they want at a border crossing.

n contrast, the Supreme Court held that Border Patrol agents on roving patrol may stop a vehicle only if they have reasonable suspicion that the vehicle contains people who may be illegally in the United States—a higher threshold for stopping and questioning motorists than at checkpoints.[6] The constitutional threshold for searching a vehicle is the same, however, and must be supported by either consent or probable cause, whether in the context of a roving patrol or a checkpoint search.

however, and must be supported by either consent or probable cause, whether in the context of a roving patrol or a checkpoint search.

 

[holdover]

"The border" should be only publicly owned property that shares a boundary with a foreign country.

not 100 miles of privately owned property near it.

I dont make the laws.

 

[holdover]

n contrast, the Supreme Court held that Border Patrol agents on roving patrol may stop a vehicle only if they have reasonable suspicion that the vehicle contains people who may be illegally in the United States—a higher threshold for stopping and questioning motorists than at checkpoints.[6] The constitutional threshold for searching a vehicle is the same, however, and must be supported by either consent or probable cause, whether in the context of a roving patrol or a checkpoint search.

however, and must be supported by either consent or probable cause, whether in the context of a roving patrol or a checkpoint search.

Border patrol does not need to PC to search withen 100 miles of the actual border. . I know its unbelievable ,

The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution typically requires government searches to be “reasonable” meaning a warrant is required before the government can search property or persons. The border search exception allows searches and seizures at international borders and their functional equivalent without a warrant or probable cause.

Federal law actually allows certain federal agents to conduct search and seizures within 100 miles of the border into the interior of the United States. (See Section 287(a)(3) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 66 Stat. 233, 8 U.S.C. § 1357(a)(3) and Attorney General’s regulation, 8 CFR § 287.1.)

The U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Special Agents (ICE), and U.S. Coast Guard officers (E4 grade and above) who are all customs officers (those tasked with enforcing Title 19 of the United States Code) with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, are permitted to search travelers and their belongings at the American border without probable cause or a warrant.

Fact or Fiction: Border Agents Do Not Need Probable Cause to Search You At Any U.S. Border Crossing | The Reeves Law Group

Does the 4th Amendment's prohibition against unreasonable search and seizure apply at U.S. border crossings? What about to your electronic devices?

www.robertreeveslaw.com

 

[holdover]

They are making arrests for smuggling.


You can walk right across as long as you aren't carrying drugs or slaves.

And you can probably just walk across anyway.

Right. No Immigration laws are being enforced.

 

[Hochulsucks1234]

I will continue to do what I always have...reload and buy ammo online. I will never go through an ammo background check. A LGS owner told me they will be stopping the sale of ammo if the background check shit goes through.

 

[byron]

Border patrol does not need to PC to search withen 100 miles of the actual border. . I know its unbelievable ,

The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution typically requires government searches to be “reasonable” meaning a warrant is required before the government can search property or persons. The border search exception allows searches and seizures at international borders and their functional equivalent without a warrant or probable cause.

Federal law actually allows certain federal agents to conduct search and seizures within 100 miles of the border into the interior of the United States. (See Section 287(a)(3) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 66 Stat. 233, 8 U.S.C. § 1357(a)(3) and Attorney General’s regulation, 8 CFR § 287.1.)

The U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Special Agents (ICE), and U.S. Coast Guard officers (E4 grade and above) who are all customs officers (those tasked with enforcing Title 19 of the United States Code) with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, are permitted to search travelers and their belongings at the American border without probable cause or a warrant.

Fact or Fiction: Border Agents Do Not Need Probable Cause to Search You At Any U.S. Border Crossing | The Reeves Law Group

Does the 4th Amendment's prohibition against unreasonable search and seizure apply at U.S. border crossings? What about to your electronic devices?

www.robertreeveslaw.com

Are there limitations to immigration officials’ power?​

The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects against arbitrary searches and seizures of people and their property, even in this expanded border area. Furthermore, as a general matter, these agents’ jurisdiction extends only to immigration violations and federal crimes. And, depending on where you are in this area and how long an agent detains you, agents must have varying levels of suspicion to hold you.
We will examine specific scenarios where one might encounter CBP in more depth, but here are your key rights. These apply to every situation, outside of customs and ports of entry.

• You have the right to remain silent or tell the agent that you’ll only answer questions in the presence of an attorney, no matter your citizenship or immigration status. You do not have to answer questions about your immigration status. You may simply say that you do not wish to answer those questions. If you choose to remain silent, the agent will likely ask you questions for longer, but your silence alone is not enough to support probable cause or reasonable suspicion to arrest, detain, or search you or your belongings.
  A limited exception does exist: for people who do have permission to be in the U.S. for a specific reason and for, usually, a limited amount of time (a “nonimmigrant” on a visa, for example), the law does require you to provide information about your immigration status if asked. While you can still choose to remain silent or decline a request to produce your documents, people in this category should be aware that they could face arrest consequences. If you want to know whether you fall into this category, you should consult an attorney.
• Generally, an immigration officer cannot detain you without “reasonable suspicion.” Reasonable suspicion is less robust than probable cause, but it is certainly not just a hunch or gut feeling. An agent must have specific facts about you that make it reasonable to believe you are committing or committed, a violation of immigration law or federal law.
  If an agent detains you, you can ask for their basis for reasonable suspicion, and they should tell you.
• An immigration officer also cannot search you or your belongings without either “probable cause” or your consent. If an agent asks you if they can search your belongings, you have the right to say no.
• An immigration officer cannot arrest you without “probable cause.”
  That means the agent must have facts about you that make it probable that you are committing, or committed, a violation of immigration law or federal law.
• Your silence alone meets neither of these standards. Nor does your race or ethnicity alone suffice for either probable cause or reasonable suspicion.

Other important factors to keep in mind:

• If an agent asks you for documents, what you need to provide differs depending on your immigration status. U.S. citizens do not have to carry proof of citizenship on their person if they are in the United States. If you have valid immigration documents and are over the age of 18, the law does require you to carry those documents on you. If you are asked by an immigration agent to produce them, it is advisable to show the documents to the agent or you risk being arrested. If you are an immigrant without documents, you can decline the officer’s request. An agent may likely ask you more questions if you decline a request. No matter what category you fall into, never provide false documents to immigration official

UNITED STATES, Petitioner, v. Felix Humberto BRIGNONI-PONCE.

www.law.cornell.edu

UNITED STATES, Petitioner, v. Felix Humberto BRIGNONI-PONCE.​

 

[spat]

Are there limitations to immigration officials’ power?​

The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects against arbitrary searches and seizures of people and their property, even in this expanded border area. Furthermore, as a general matter, these agents’ jurisdiction extends only to immigration violations and federal crimes. And, depending on where you are in this area and how long an agent detains you, agents must have varying levels of suspicion to hold you.
We will examine specific scenarios where one might encounter CBP in more depth, but here are your key rights. These apply to every situation, outside of customs and ports of entry.

• You have the right to remain silent or tell the agent that you’ll only answer questions in the presence of an attorney, no matter your citizenship or immigration status. You do not have to answer questions about your immigration status. You may simply say that you do not wish to answer those questions. If you choose to remain silent, the agent will likely ask you questions for longer, but your silence alone is not enough to support probable cause or reasonable suspicion to arrest, detain, or search you or your belongings.
  A limited exception does exist: for people who do have permission to be in the U.S. for a specific reason and for, usually, a limited amount of time (a “nonimmigrant” on a visa, for example), the law does require you to provide information about your immigration status if asked. While you can still choose to remain silent or decline a request to produce your documents, people in this category should be aware that they could face arrest consequences. If you want to know whether you fall into this category, you should consult an attorney.
• Generally, an immigration officer cannot detain you without “reasonable suspicion.” Reasonable suspicion is less robust than probable cause, but it is certainly not just a hunch or gut feeling. An agent must have specific facts about you that make it reasonable to believe you are committing or committed, a violation of immigration law or federal law.
  If an agent detains you, you can ask for their basis for reasonable suspicion, and they should tell you.
• An immigration officer also cannot search you or your belongings without either “probable cause” or your consent. If an agent asks you if they can search your belongings, you have the right to say no.
• An immigration officer cannot arrest you without “probable cause.”
  That means the agent must have facts about you that make it probable that you are committing, or committed, a violation of immigration law or federal law.
• Your silence alone meets neither of these standards. Nor does your race or ethnicity alone suffice for either probable cause or reasonable suspicion.

Other important factors to keep in mind:

• If an agent asks you for documents, what you need to provide differs depending on your immigration status. U.S. citizens do not have to carry proof of citizenship on their person if they are in the United States. If you have valid immigration documents and are over the age of 18, the law does require you to carry those documents on you. If you are asked by an immigration agent to produce them, it is advisable to show the documents to the agent or you risk being arrested. If you are an immigrant without documents, you can decline the officer’s request. An agent may likely ask you more questions if you decline a request. No matter what category you fall into, never provide false documents to immigration official

UNITED STATES, Petitioner, v. Felix Humberto BRIGNONI-PONCE.

www.law.cornell.edu

UNITED STATES, Petitioner, v. Felix Humberto BRIGNONI-PONCE.​

I imagine if you refuse to "consent" to a search at the border they will just not allow you to cross.

I know people here who cross literally every day.

One tells a story about basically getting stuck between countries due to some clothing (as merchandise) that didn't have the right paperwork.

He was not going to be allowed into the US with it, and not allowed back into Mexico either.

Luckily the Mexican border guards are far less professional than the US ones, and problems like that are customarily handled with an informal "fee".

Now, if the border is considered to go 100 miles inland, I guess if you refuse a search they can probably deport you LOL (regardless of how long you've been "on the border" or if you even actuallly left the country).

You would then not be allowed back in until you consented to the search (or probably got a lawyer and spend a lot of $$$).

I don't imagine there would be any consequences for the agents pulling that crap either

 

[holdover]

The supreme court says it does not apply to border searches. Dont shoot me, shoot them.

 

[holdover]

I imagine if you refuse to "consent" to a search at the border they will just not allow you to cross.

I know people here who cross literally every day.

One tells a story about basically getting stuck between countries due to some clothing (as merchandise) that didn't have the right paperwork.

He was not going to be allowed into the US with it, and not allowed back into Mexico either.

Luckily the Mexican border guards are far less professional than the US ones, and problems like that are customarily handled with an informal "fee".

Now, if the border is considered to go 100 miles inland, I guess if you refuse a search they can probably deport you LOL (regardless of how long you've been "on the border" or if you even actuallly left the country).

You would then not be allowed back in until you consented to the search (or probably got a lawyer and spend a lot of $$$).

I don't imagine there would be any consequences for the agents pulling that crap either

Have you been through the check points on 19 yet? We used to set up near Tubac or Tumacurori a lot. im betting they still are.

 

[That_FNG]

Could we get back on track and stick to the original intent which was the latest info on the ammo background check law?

 

[spat]

Have you been through the check points on 19 yet? We used to set up near Tubac or Tumacurori a lot. im betting they still are.

That's a permanent checkpoint.

They have a large structure there that you have to drive through. It's manned 24/7 and they have cut all the other roads headed north to force all traffic onto I19

I basically have to go through it any time I want to go further north than Tubac

 

[Chicken Shoot]

My wife was informed by the NYSP that they will NOT enforce this or ANY of the laws passed recently. They are not setup to do so and the state doesn't have the capabilities to even own a database big enough to do any BGC. The ATF, whom she works with closely, are PISSED!! NYS has NO legal standing to reclassify ANY firearm or weapon. Incase you missed it, the "others" are still being sold as the FFL's have been made aware of this.

 

[spat]

Right. No Immigration laws are being enforced.

At this point border patrol are more like park rangers that just rescue the people who get lost or injured in the desert.

Outside of official crossings and checkpoints They're more search and rescue than law enforcement.

They did just deploy a giant observation balloon in Nogales that has a lot of people pissed off.

Personally I'm good with the balloon. Seems pretty well tailored to their actual mission of securing the border, and othing they can see from it they don't have a right to see anyway.

It's that damn checkpoint on I19 that passes me off every time I have to think about it.

 

[Edwardteach72]

My wife was informed by the NYSP that they will NOT enforce this or ANY of the laws passed recently. They are not setup to do so and the state doesn't have the capabilities to even own a database big enough to do any BGC. The ATF, whom she works with closely, are PISSED!! NYS has NO legal standing to reclassify ANY firearm or weapon. Incase you missed it, the "others" are still being sold as the FFL's have been made aware of this.

The NYSP will 100% enforce these laws, they will arrest anyone they get a chance to do so.

 

[Saltwater60]

Try that at that border checkpoint and you'll find out just how much the federal government DGAF about constitutional rights.

They need no PC. They don't even need a hunch.

In practice they just wave you through without even coming to a complete stop, but they *can* just tear your whole car apart while giving you a full cavity search and just leave you with a pile of parts if they feel like it.

Because, despite being 30 miles from the nearest point of foreign soil, and on an interstate highway between 2 major US cities, and the majority of people passing through not having ever left the US, it is considered a border crossing, and they can search anything they want at a border crossing.

A boarder crossing yes I get that is a different situation.

 

[Saltwater60]

The NYSP will 100% enforce these laws, they will arrest anyone they get a chance to do so.

Agreed. I’m not sure I believe that they won’t enforce any of it. Good luck not being arrested for carrying where you’re not allowed to.
They may not have the people or programs in place but they don’t care.

 

[spat]

A boarder crossing yes I get that is a different situation.

They call it a border crossing every time I go to Tucson.

 

[holdover]

That's a permanent checkpoint.

They have a large structure there that you have to drive through. It's manned 24/7 and they have cut all the other roads headed north to force all traffic onto I19

I basically have to go through it any time I want to go further north than Tubac

They changed it. there was nothing there but a trailer to process people and cones to redirect traffic

 

[holdover]

At this point border patrol are more like park rangers that just rescue the people who get lost or injured in the desert.

Outside of official crossings and checkpoints They're more search and rescue than law enforcement.

They did just deploy a giant observation balloon in Nogales that has a lot of people pissed off.

Personally I'm good with the balloon. Seems pretty well tailored to their actual mission of securing the border, and othing they can see from it they don't have a right to see anyway.

It's that damn checkpoint on I19 that passes me off every time I have to think about it.

Oh God, you dont how many pissed off people we stopped going to work . I felt pretty shitty about it. They would just growl at you.

 

[spat]

They changed it. there was nothing there but a trailer to process people and cones to redirect traffic

The trailer is still there, but it's completely buried in weeds.

This thing is a canopy that covers the whole road.

They have a couple trailers under it that have offices and holding cells and stuff.

They've also got one of those trucks than can X-ray a whole semi.

 

[repete]

The leftists already have NYSP partolling the highways out of Pa looking for potential "gun owners". This is a common occurrence.

Don't park in an out of state gun shops parking lot, park and walk or better UBER!

 

[Acer-m14]

you know them 1A auditors .. filming in public .. well there are boarder auditors too .. just saying .. some got brass balls lol ..

Defense attorney Robert J. Campos demonstrates how to assert your legal rights at a border stop​

in his discription below .. this is part and there is a whole lot more ..

"In United States v. Martinez Fuerte, 428 U.S. 543 (1976), our United States Supreme Court ruled that the Border Patrol's routine stopping of a vehicle at a permanent checkpoint located on a major highway away from the Mexican border for brief questioning of the vehicle's occupants is consistent with the Fourth Amendment, and the stops and questioning may be made at reasonably located checkpoints in the absence of any individualized suspicion that the particular vehicle contains illegal aliens. The Court went on describe the reasons for their decision and the impracticality of forcing Border Patrol Agents to obtain a warrant in advance of a checkpoint or requiring that Border Patrol Agents have reasonable suspicion for each vehicle stopped. The Supreme Court’s ruling allows Border Patrol Agents to set up permanent checkpoints along major freeways, stopping all vehicles, and allowing Agents to question United States citizens regarding their citizenship and any other question that the Agents wants to ask in relation to your immigration status. "

"I have two questions for you: One, should you care? And two, if you do, how do you assert your rights at these checkpoints? "