Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
[VIDEO] This Man Carried With An Empty Chamber, And It Cost Him His Life And His Son’s Life
IMHO, you are making a big mistake not doing so.
IMHO, you are making a big mistake not doing so.
Another Sad Example Of Why You Should Carry With A Round Chambered
- Thread starter Dr. Evil
- Start date
ken75ranger
22lr
Very sad.
Mr. terzmo
.308 Win
I like semi's but more than often carry a wheel gun....357 mag...snubby...if I need more than 6 rounds...I know I'm in trouble.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
The guy and his kid are dead because some POS scumbag was raised to believe taking other people's stuff and lives for no good reason is acceptable.
While carrying with one in the chamber is ideal, its still the scumbag criminal's fault. Just as it would still be the criminal's fault if the guy wasn't armed at all.
While carrying with one in the chamber is ideal, its still the scumbag criminal's fault. Just as it would still be the criminal's fault if the guy wasn't armed at all.
If you dont have one in the chamber, you should not be carrying, thats my thought.
Without one in the chamber you are more likely to get killed or over powered and lose your weapon to the bad guy.
Now the knife wielding criminal is a gun wielding criminal.
Without one in the chamber you are more likely to get killed or over powered and lose your weapon to the bad guy.
Now the knife wielding criminal is a gun wielding criminal.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
@4excal .
freddy
.308 Win
That youtube channel 'active self protection' is the single best source I've found for analysis of actual gunfights.
They have hundreds...
Www.activeselfprotection.com/blog
They have hundreds...
Www.activeselfprotection.com/blog
fartgamer
.223 Rem
My wheelguns are always loaded.
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
I don't think anyone is saying the scumbag isn't the reason the guy and his son are dead. Obviously if the criminal wasn't around, none of this would have happened. The main point of this thread, and I'm sure you get it, is to tell folks that carry that they should absolutely have one in the chamber. Although there are no guarantees, there is a chance things could have turned out differently and I'll take whatever chance I can get if I were ever in a situation like that.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
I just had this conversation with I guy I work with not too long ago. He does about everything g wrong. He carries a .25 cal I said get yourself a better gun, no round chambered I said you won't have time to chamber a round. His response well I don't carry it in a holster so I don't chamber a round for safety reasons. I said get a better gun, carry it chambered, and get a good pocket holster before you shoot your balls off. Did he listen of course not.
When will people learn? 
I may have mentioned this before.
I was at my club a while back, and there was a Church Security Team that was doing some training. I was asked to assist on the range, to watch for safety etc.,
I noticed there was this older couple who was there, and they both had Kimber Micro 380's. While observing the dry fire drills they were going through, I noticed that they were racking the slide on each draw. I asked them about it, and the Fella said: "we're not comfortable with a round in the chamber". I walk over and was talking to the training officer, and mentioned it, he said something to the effect of; "They're new at CC-ing, and he's working on it with them". Keep in mind that this is a Church Group, not a true security force. They have some pretty well trained Folks that I observed, and this particular couple is part of the training because they would rather at least have some training, I did notice that once they got their handguns deployed, they could certainly shoot. ANYWAY, so while I'm watching them go into the "live fire" drill, I noticed that they would deploy their firearm, then forget they had the safety on, and double-clutch before racking the slide. I stopped them and asked why they had the safety on without one in the chamber. The Fella said: "because the gun is loaded". I explained to him, that if he insisted in carrying without a round in the chamber (which I do not suggest!!), that there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to have the safety on. Also, that when dry firing, the safety was off, and that this is not good for training. I spent some time with the training officer later on the range, and we were talking about this situation. He said, he's been working on them for a bit, and he's making progress. At least now they can shoot. He said his ultimate goal with this couple is to either get them to carry the Kimbers cocked & locked, OR to get them to switch to another platform. I told him good luck with either of those. He said; "YEP, I've got my work cut out for me"!
I'll have to find out form my Buddy when they'll be out there again, I would like to see id they've progressd at all.
Hijack/OFF
I may have mentioned this before.
I was at my club a while back, and there was a Church Security Team that was doing some training. I was asked to assist on the range, to watch for safety etc.,
I noticed there was this older couple who was there, and they both had Kimber Micro 380's. While observing the dry fire drills they were going through, I noticed that they were racking the slide on each draw. I asked them about it, and the Fella said: "we're not comfortable with a round in the chamber". I walk over and was talking to the training officer, and mentioned it, he said something to the effect of; "They're new at CC-ing, and he's working on it with them". Keep in mind that this is a Church Group, not a true security force. They have some pretty well trained Folks that I observed, and this particular couple is part of the training because they would rather at least have some training, I did notice that once they got their handguns deployed, they could certainly shoot. ANYWAY, so while I'm watching them go into the "live fire" drill, I noticed that they would deploy their firearm, then forget they had the safety on, and double-clutch before racking the slide. I stopped them and asked why they had the safety on without one in the chamber. The Fella said: "because the gun is loaded". I explained to him, that if he insisted in carrying without a round in the chamber (which I do not suggest!!), that there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to have the safety on. Also, that when dry firing, the safety was off, and that this is not good for training. I spent some time with the training officer later on the range, and we were talking about this situation. He said, he's been working on them for a bit, and he's making progress. At least now they can shoot. He said his ultimate goal with this couple is to either get them to carry the Kimbers cocked & locked, OR to get them to switch to another platform. I told him good luck with either of those. He said; "YEP, I've got my work cut out for me"!
I'll have to find out form my Buddy when they'll be out there again, I would like to see id they've progressd at all.
Hijack/OFF
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
So your reasoning is that it might go off by itself in the holster?Lol. Yup. The person needed more practice is all, this slow fool won't sway my needs and reasoning for a possible discharge. I prefer togs "brick" theory.
4excal
.338 Win Mag
Or perhaps when the firearm slips out of the holster while taking a shit in a public restroom
oh wait accidents can't happen here at this forum, everything is negligence and nobody has accidents...
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Get yourself a kydex one clip holster. With a one clip holster, whenever you need to disarm and take the gun off your belt, the whole holster comes off. Easy on, easy off.Or perhaps when the firearm slips out of the holster while taking a shit in a public restroom
"Deluxe Trapp" IWB Holster (All Kydex)
Also, if you move your carry position to your side or front, you can actually see what you are doing when you do reholster after a draw.
If you still can't trust yourself, get a gun with a safety. Problem solved. An XD or XDS with a grip safety would remedy any problems you think you may have.
No offense but carrying without a round in the chamber is the mark of an amateur. No matter how quick you think you are, you are still too slow and if you get knocked down or hit with something, you'll never be able to rack that slide.
Just looking out for you. Don't let Darth beat you too by the way.
About time you realized that. Now chamber up pussy!Or perhaps when the firearm slips out of the holster while taking a shit in a public restroom
4excal
.338 Win Mag
That was very sad and hard to watch!
I never imagined that anyone out there was carrying on an empty chamber until I started to frequent gun forums. Insane.
I had a few customers when I was at Gander who carried an empty gun. Always thought they were nuts. Those few were nothing compared to how many Gun Guys on Gun Forums carry empty guns!
Honestly think about this for a second. We who have been to real training, be it military, police, or civilian classes, have had it drilled into our heads that immediate, decisive action is the key to surviving a violent encounter. Agreed?
That being the case, I would prefer to immediately run as quickly as possible away from a threat than to waste time drawing an inoperable firearm which I now must make ready to fire. In my personal system, that includes handguns that have a safety, but for purposes of this discussion, we can ignore that more strict requirement.
I fully believe that my decision to turn tail and run will be more effective, more of the time, than drawing and making ready an inoperable firearm (which is what an unchambered firearm is until loaded) would be.
That being the case, I would prefer to immediately run as quickly as possible away from a threat than to waste time drawing an inoperable firearm which I now must make ready to fire. In my personal system, that includes handguns that have a safety, but for purposes of this discussion, we can ignore that more strict requirement.
I fully believe that my decision to turn tail and run will be more effective, more of the time, than drawing and making ready an inoperable firearm (which is what an unchambered firearm is until loaded) would be.
Arjuna
.338 Win Mag
Might as well carry a brick in your pocket if you don't keep one in the pipe
Cleck
.308 Win
Video gone/page not found. I still get the point though and I'll just say for the sake of saying it 3x, might as well have a fucking brick if you're carrying cold. I hope you're good w/ it.
speedkills27
6.5 Creedmoor
videos down/gone
Shadow2
6.5 Creedmoor
Link is not working for me.
And i'm sure there are 101 scenarios where an empty chamber whould have been better. Israeli carry exists for a reason, and its not like those who it's named after don't have experience. You can debate hypotheticals until your blue in the face, random acts of violence have no manual and don't follow any one way of doing things.
And i'm sure there are 101 scenarios where an empty chamber whould have been better. Israeli carry exists for a reason, and its not like those who it's named after don't have experience. You can debate hypotheticals until your blue in the face, random acts of violence have no manual and don't follow any one way of doing things.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Israeli carry exists because back in the day before their country accrued wealth, they had no standard sidearm. They had handguns of all varieties from many different places that they were able to scrounge them from. Some had safeties and some did not. They were of all makes and models. The military always needs uniformity for training purposes so to make things easier and uniform, they taught this way.
They taught this way not because it was better. They taught this way because they had to train their troops the exact same way. A sidearm is rarely used in the military anyway.
Even here in America, 80 percent of the time, the military carries in Condition 3 (empty chamber). Again, not because it is better. Our military carries this way because they don't trust their troops. Outside the wire, is a different matter and the condition carried in is based on your Platoon, Squad, or Fireteam leader.
It's not a better method no matter what anyone says. Physics is physics and seconds are seconds.
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Military rules and regulations derive from a multitude of reasons, but rarely if ever solely based on combat effectiveness. That's what personal defense training is for,m.