Yes the start police use the GAP but they are in process of changing pistols and I think the new one will be 45 ACP I can verify in a few days. A friends wife is in RPD and her service pistol is a glock 21 which is 45 acp.
Can 10mm Save the 1911?
- Thread starter Marine Cpl
- Start date
Yes the start police use the GAP but they are in process of changing pistols and I think the new one will be 45 ACP I can verify in a few days. A friends wife is in RPD and her service pistol is a glock 21 which is 45 acp.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
You know what they say about opinions. Why argue guys. You like .45 acp get one. You want a 10mm get one. Ask opinion and experiences that’s what forums are for, but argue about it ??
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Ok.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It isn't arguing. Is the presentation of facts. And the fact is that the .45 ACP is not a good hard barrier performer. You can find evidence of that anywhere.
I learned that from another forum and researched it for myself to confirm.
That's what these forums are for. To learn and talk about topics.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
@Edwardteach72 would have chimed in if it was about .40 S&W. He hates that one. I agree.
I think the 45 is not a good barrier penetrator is a little over blown. There are enough videos showing 45 going through car doors and other stuff. No bought that there are other calibers that will get through stuff that 45 wont but what is the trade offs? what type of barriers do you you need to penetrate?
For me personally I would not want to carry a 357 sig or 357 magnum because of how well it penetrates stuff. They create more liability than I want.
Funny thing is that this thread was in-sighting an argument form the get go. Like the 1911 needs saving, that the 45 ACP is not a good caliber, and that 10mm is a great carry round.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The tradeoffs equal capacity for subcompacts, reduced velocity for even further reduction in barrier penetration for subcompacts, and additional recoil for subcompacts that hinder follow-up shots.
The .45 ACP is optimal in a 5 inch barrel for those tradeoffs to be minimal or else you get 750 fps.
Cool you have done some back to back!! Could you share some details or pics with us.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You really need proof that a 10mm hits things harder than a .45?
.45 ACP 5 inch barrel 230 gr 850 fps
10mm 4 inch barrel 230 gr 1150 fps
Sure, I can come up with something.
The frying pan thing went south on me.
I guess I should have watched some videos to see what type of pan they used before I announced to my buddies that a 45 would not penetrate.
I proceeded to blow quarter sized holes through 1 of my GFs frying pans with my 45.
My friends asked what the trick was.
Also the 45 went through a car door.
The 10mm just does these things more spectacularly, with more twisted metal.
Ive also shot cinder blocks with both.
It took 3 rounds of 45 to destroy the block.
One round of 10mm turned it to dust.
Then shooting into a tree, the 45 makes a hole.
The 10mm makes a hole and blasts a 6 inch circle of bark off the tree.
The 45 cracked a watermelon.
The 10mm explodes watermelons to a pink foam.
They both do the same to a 2 liter of soda.....until you inspect the damage. The 10mm shreds the plastic.
The 45 cracks the plastic.
Through 3/4 inch plywood the 45 puts 45 size holes.
The 10mm puts 50 cent piece holes and folds 1 inch of wood around the hole backwards.
Shooting a tire tread was a big mistake, neither did shit but a small burn mark.
The sidewalls both went through and made a slit that closed behind the bullet.
Those are just a few of the very scientific experiments ive done. All but the tire tread were relatively safe.
Wait people want an argument?
If the 9mm cant "save" the 1911, how can the 10mm (yes I watched the video) and I love the 10mm butttttttttt I'd rather get something like an EEA witness or a glock 20 or even a S&W 1006
Oh or a Bren 10
I have an SR1911 in 45.
I really do not care for the platform.
I prefer my G20.
I think this may because my first auto pistol was a striker fired. The 1911 has too many moving parts.
I do like my 1911 but for daily carry I will stick with striker fired.........at least for now.
The 1911 shines as
1) historical bs gun
2) a platform for a good gamer gun and race gun (but sorry I'll even take the .40 stupid & whatevs over the .45acp in that catalogory)
3) range gun / flashy /safe queen or BBQ gun
1) historical bs gun
2) a platform for a good gamer gun and race gun (but sorry I'll even take the .40 stupid & whatevs over the .45acp in that catalogory)
3) range gun / flashy /safe queen or BBQ gun
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I carried a 1911 Series 70 for about 3 years. It was heavy. I always knew it was there. It also wasn't comfortable. When I gained weight, my belly fat got torn up on the cocked hammer.
I think the guys that like them for carry are the same guys that would rather have an M14 made of iron and wood in combat rather than a plastic AR.
I think the guys that like them for carry are the same guys that would rather have an M14 made of iron and wood in combat rather than a plastic AR.
But but 2 world wars
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
Ha I got that comment on alien gears Facebook when asking about a shoulder holster for the g40.
Uninformed and Compliant
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Timely post about this exact topic:
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Well that explains it. It's an inability to conform to a modern battlefield. If you put up a battalion of soldiers armed with M14's, 1911's, and sateen green uniforms against another battalion of soldiers with M4's with red dots, Sig P320's, and multicam in an urban environment, the old dogs would get slaughtered.
Today's battlefield has a lot of barriers and tight spaces.
Today's battlefield has a lot of barriers and tight spaces.
Has nothing to do with proof or belief, just interested in hearing form someone who has actually done something!!! The only thing I have shot with those calibers was a 4 by 4 piece of lumber and both went through it.
I have seen the advertised ballistics too.... and compared to the chrono data I have collected many are overstated. And to be fair if you are going to compare full house 10mm to 45 you should look at the 45 +p stuff that is at 950 fps with 230 grain.
I knew I could count on you
btw the Bren 10 sucks.
Omg I finally found a gun you dont like. And the bren 10 is awesome.. but like in the sense conceptually and 80s factor
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
A .45 Super would be a better comparison. I don't know why that never killed the ACP. Perhaps the same reason it hasn't died today. You know the whole manstopper thing.
yea, they made less than1500 of them and went bankrupt in a couple of years because they were so great. But it did look cool in the TV show Miami Vice...
Gun Blast does not like any pistol that is plagued with problems.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The .45 ACP IS super! Like an awesome .40 on steroids! Man, get with the program!!! If you insist on that pencil eraser at least go for the .357 SIG, another awesome cartridge, in a SIG, of course.
Robin
Robin
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Replying to myself and anyone willing to listen, it seems the .45 Super never took off in the modern world because of mythical stories concerning the ACP and the same unwillingness by people resistant to change. It would have been a contender keeping the same size, same grains, and going 1150 fps instead of 850.
In 1988, a Gun World article detailed Grennell's efforts to update the .45 ACP for the 21st Century, a difficult endeavor due to the inherent design limitations of the veteran round.[6] Introduced in the early 20th Century, the .45 ACP has a relatively large case capacity which was dictated by the relatively low pressure powders in use at the time of its development; as a result, it operates in the modest range of 19,900 – 22,000 Copper units of pressure (CUP). In contrast, current day cartridges using modern nitrocellulose powders generating higher pressure can produce a CUP in the 28,000 – 39,000 range.[6] As it was originally designed for lower pressures, the .45 ACP case has relatively thin walls and weak case head and web specifications; it cannot reliably contain increased pressures. The layout of most M1911 pistols' chambers presents yet another challenge in that the case head is not fully supported in the cartridge feed ramp area;[2] pushing the envelope in this critical area with too much pressure risks a catastrophic failure, resulting in a case bursting in the chamber.[6] To rule out such a dangerous possibility, Grennell chose to use brass formed from the stronger and more modern .451[1] Detonics, shortened to the overall length of the .45 ACP design.[2]Support for the case head was also addressed by adopting a new chamber and barrel design which supports the base area of the case.[6] Other areas of the model 1911 pistol design were also strengthened, including the addition of a heavier recoil spring and a strengthened firing pin redesigned to prevent primer material from flowing into the firing pin channel under high chamber pressures.[2]