Look at Jimmy Doolittle.
He basically had to gamble with his career in the 1930s to try and convince people air power was the future technology to win wars.
Fantasy WWII re-write
- Thread starter Podmonkey
- Start date
Look at Jimmy Doolittle.
He basically had to gamble with his career in the 1930s to try and convince people air power was the future technology to win wars.
Wait couldnt we bring back modern gun powder, I dont see why they wouldnt be able to reproduce it if we have the formula...
Now with that said, FAL in .280brit or even something in 5.56 (or better yet one of the 6.5/6.8s and be ahead of the curve bringing the bullet shape as well) along with the modern powder, switching thr 1911 for a hi power or even CZ 75 in 9mm (with the modern charges) and the grease gun but rechambered in 9mm
Well, the most relevant part of our naval forces, the carriers, were absent. A fatal misfortune for the Japanese. If the they had gotten our carriers we would have had to cede the whole Pacific to the Japanese. Also imagine that the U Boat menace succeeded in cutting Great Briton off, the Allies would have had to sue for peace. Just about the only path the Axis had to victory. This must must have hung in the air very heavily indeed early in the war among the leadership and the populace.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
I knew we'd get to the caliber argument sooner or later.
Think of the rules as legos. You can bring back whatever schematics you want but you have to use whatever legos are available in that time.
Otherwise it would just be a matter of bringing
Gerald R Ford class carriers, Ohio and Virginia class subs, F22s, F18s and the coup de grace the B2 bomber. Plus Abrams tanks, Bradleys, Javelin anti tank missiles, Apaches, M4s and all the other overwhelming tech we have at our disposal.
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I knew we'd get to the caliber argument sooner or later.
Hahaha not trying to make it into an argument lmao, but we could advance the charges for 9mm ahead almost 80 years creating less load out and replace the Thomson (which yes is amazing americana) with the grease gun but in 9mm
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
This has been a huge topic of debate in regard to conspiracy to get us into the war. The powers that be knew we would need the carriers more than the battle ships and so sacrificed those ships to anger a nation into going to war.
Our carriers were worth their weight in gold in 1942. I'm still amazed the battle of Midway turned out the way it did. If you look back at it so many events lined up perfectly to get the outcome we did.
I feel at the very least we could reproduce more modern types go gun powder so I'll stick with bringing that formula back lol grease gun in 9mm
Pissed Off Patriot
.223 Rem
More flamethrowers and incendiary bombs. I like my Krauts crispy.
Similar theory about the Lusitania.
The grease gun did come with a 9mm conversion kit. Was never used in the field.
A little into the war we did develop the best damn flamethrower that any military had ever fielded.
spat
.950 JDJ
Stuff I would introduce, digital electronics and semiconductors. And once that was working, more advanced radar and guidance systems.
They're not going to be able to manage integrated circuits right away, but they already had crude diodes, they just didn't know the theory of how they worked well enough to be able to improve them. Once they got them working better, transistors would be the gateway to a lot of very useful technology.
They're not going to be able to manage integrated circuits right away, but they already had crude diodes, they just didn't know the theory of how they worked well enough to be able to improve them. Once they got them working better, transistors would be the gateway to a lot of very useful technology.
spat
.950 JDJ
Or maybe with an existing example of all the tech to copy, they would have had a fleet of nuclear super carriers with F14s by 1950 and had f22s by 1970.
Even with WWII turning into a rout I still see us emerging as a superpower.
Have we brought up things like nylon and other better weather resistant materials for clothing? That could be a game changer there alone.
Imagine being a nazi cold as balls wet and muddy, and across from you is an American boy only kinda chilly wet but cant really tell that much and muddy but who cares it's just mud.
Imagine being a nazi cold as balls wet and muddy, and across from you is an American boy only kinda chilly wet but cant really tell that much and muddy but who cares it's just mud.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
I think that, in that instance, it would have largely fell on the outcome of the next global war. Without the forced demise of the battleship and emergence of the aircraft carrier, the technology wouldn't have been validated and subsequently improved and expanded upon during the Cold War.
spat
.950 JDJ
I think the appearance of a super carrier from the future fully armed and staffed with officers experienced in modern combat doctrine would be enough to convince most people the technology and doctrine was validated.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Yeah but in the plot, the Nimitz carrier arrived mostly undetected and could have wiped out the Japanese force without being detected. So there goes that. Even so, even if noticed, the appearance would have been chalked up to some kind of UFO deal and would have been largely discounted. Check out Admiral Richard E. Byrd and his Antarctic mission.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
"The presence of nuclear weapons on board U.S. aircraft carriers since the end of the Cold War has neither been confirmed nor denied by the U.S. government."
Nimitz-class aircraft carrier - Wikipedia
Hell, if we're going there, I'd take half a dozen Los Angeles class submarines (or even just one). And likely take over the planet therewith.
Nimitz-class aircraft carrier - Wikipedia
Hell, if we're going there, I'd take half a dozen Los Angeles class submarines (or even just one). And likely take over the planet therewith.
spat
.950 JDJ
I am assuming the carrier stayed in the past. IIRC the captain's plan was to sail into Pearl Harbor and report for duty. Would be kind of hard to dismiss that kind of evidence.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
You are mistaken. They were out to sea, away from Pearl Harbor and discovered they could intercept the Japanese fleet and airwing before it reached Pearl Harbor. The carrier also did not stay in the past. It eventually went back to it's own time.
spat
.950 JDJ
I am aware that in the movie they went back to their own time, and basically didn't change anything. This was not by choice though.
I am considering what would have happened if the captain had gotten his way. The Nimitz air wing had decimated the attacking Japanese force, then the Nimitz had returned to Pearl and reported for duty in the war. Would it have been used to eliminate the Japanese fleet, then sent to the Atlantic to end the war there ? Would they have had a few dozen nukes on board that could have ended the war within weeks ? Or would it have been essentially impounded and studied and copied and not used directly in combat ?
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
They may have very well been attacked as an enemy had they just rolled into Pearl that way. Just imagine a future ship (space force even) showing up on the scene like something out of this world. Even though it's "our ship" from the future, doesn't mean we'd accept it as such in the present.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
@spat I think probably the latter but consider that would mean Oppenheimer and company would have had actual working nukes (and the cadre that understood how they work) to work from as early as December 1941.
spat
.950 JDJ
Well, I would assume there would be extensive radio contact first, and the people in Pearl would not believe them, then they would fly a couple supersonic passes with F14s and say "believe us now ?", then maybe land a helicopter and bring some brass back to the ship for a tour, and eventually they would be accepted.
But you're right, it would not be as simple as just sailing in.
Vapor
.308 Win
Eh hem....
Sticking to small arms focused around the tech in the period...the Valmet I think would be do able with stamping tech of the time. Throw in the galils safety and you have a very good ww2 smalls arms hammer.
The RPD was a decent gun. Perhaps having those in tandem with the valmet\galil.
The FG42 showed some promise as an all around weapon with some very modern features. That would also get my nod in mass production, but perhaps scaled back into a 6.5 or 6.8 caliber.
Even something like the mini 14 in 6.8 Spc might be doable. Imagine that for the US. Not a huge improvement over the Garand in function, but soft recoil, workable ballistics, and much better capacity.
things I wouldn't care for: Muh .308 battle rifles...the m14 is a mediocre up grade to the garand at best...An unpopular opinion to Fudds and Muh two world war types I know...
Sticking to small arms focused around the tech in the period...the Valmet I think would be do able with stamping tech of the time. Throw in the galils safety and you have a very good ww2 smalls arms hammer.
The RPD was a decent gun. Perhaps having those in tandem with the valmet\galil.
The FG42 showed some promise as an all around weapon with some very modern features. That would also get my nod in mass production, but perhaps scaled back into a 6.5 or 6.8 caliber.
Even something like the mini 14 in 6.8 Spc might be doable. Imagine that for the US. Not a huge improvement over the Garand in function, but soft recoil, workable ballistics, and much better capacity.
things I wouldn't care for: Muh .308 battle rifles...the m14 is a mediocre up grade to the garand at best...An unpopular opinion to Fudds and Muh two world war types I know...
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Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
C-130 gun ship, and the Apache/Cobra Helicopter ~~~ what did I win?
The original c130 is from early 1950s design and technology. I'm sure it could be worked into this scenario.
speedkills27
6.5 Creedmoor
Wouldn't better metal alloy and strong jet engines allow more air lift capabilities reducing the need for shipping?