Hypothetical question...

[Acer-m14]

hear them talking they took some doe's , get there tag number and a photo if you can and call .. i have access to 56 acres in 9P .. but not the land owner so i will never get a doe tag for there .. all i can do is bow hunt or musket for a doe ... i don't mind at all .. what they are doing hurts my chance of getting a doe the lawful way and yours too ..

 

[Airborneguy]

I care about lots of stuff. If I didn't, I wouldn't be posting here. It's called a self defeating argument.

Her is by question, on the meat and potatoes of the argument:

I own between 1 and 3,000,000 acres of land in the Adirondacks. In what way will "poaching" (which isa crap definition, as that is a state made up bunch of BS) harm my land, assuming you are not on it? (As I fully agree with trespassing laws.)

Deer move. You don't own enough for them to live their whole lives on your land only. Even if they did, you don't own the wild animals on your property. These are truths. Libertarianism is not.

 

[Robin]

See GOP, depends.
Robin

 

[Criticalt]

I care about lots of stuff. If I didn't, I wouldn't be posting here. It's called a self defeating argument.

Her is by question, on the meat and potatoes of the argument:

I own between 1 and 3,000,000 acres of land in the Adirondacks. In what way will "poaching" (which isa crap definition, as that is a state made up bunch of BS) harm my land, assuming you are not on it? (As I fully agree with trespassing laws.)

My main argument is people using my land and land touching my land for "if its brown, its down" practices.
The guys that come in once a year and kill everything they see for 30 straight days.
My neigbors on both sides are Amish. For decades they have been taking several deer a year out of season to feed their families. These arent the legendary filthy rich Amish that hoard millions of dollars under their pillows, ive never seen them. These are poor farmers that live off the land.
The ones im talking aboit are the guys that come in 3 truckloads of 6 guys each. They are decked out in fancy Cabella bought gear head to toe and $3000 rifles.
They leave garbage and beer cans in their wake as they push deer in a grid every day for weeks.
That will decimate a herd so deer from other herds have to fill in the decimated area. That weakens the other herds. After a number of years, the herds dwindle.
Ive seen it happen on our 600 acres.
When the "poachers" were active here, the deer were few and far between. Now that the poachets are under control, we have several healthy herds.
Its just basic environmental husbandry.
If you kill all the breeding deer, the population suffers.
Other deer will fill in the gaps but if they cant keep up with the decline, they fail.
They argument that deer travel 100s of miles and have huge ranges is not true. Many deer live their entire lives in a surprisingly small area.
Breeding age bucks can travel miles looking for does but does usually stay in a defined area their whole life.
This isnt an opinion, it has happened in every state many times over. Over hunting harms the wildlife.
Many counties in NYS may not see this but here in the very rural areas, its very easy for large groups of hunters to take alot of deer.
In fact, in 30 plus years of hunting, ive NEVER seen a DEC officer in the field during hunting season. They have 1000s of acres to cover.

 

[Darth]

Deer move. You don't own enough for them to live their whole lives on your land only. Even if they did, you don't own the wild animals on your property. These are truths. Libertarianism is not.

People move too.

You're correct, you don't own animals on your property. So, again, why does NYS thin they do?

 

[Airborneguy]

Because NYS (and conversely, every elected government body), represents the interest of the people as a whole rather than the individual who thinks they own wildlife and can do what they want with it.

 

[Criticalt]

People move too.

You're correct, you don't own animals on your property. So, again, why does NYS thin they do?

Because people suck.
If people were allowed to do what they wanted, there would be no wildlife left.
You know, the guys that kill every snake they see because the are afraid of them.
And they guys that believe the only good coyote is a dead coyote.
You know, the type of guys that nearly wiped out the bison, wolves and beavers.

 

[Criticalt]

People move too.

You're correct, you don't own animals on your property. So, again, why does NYS thin they do?

And....
Its all our country and the animals are all of ours. Fair and humane harvesting is the only way to keep OUR deer and have enough for generations to share.

 

[Darth]

Because people suck.
If people were allowed to do what they wanted, there would be no wildlife left.
You know, the guys that kill every snake they see because the are afraid of them.
And they guys that believe the only good coyote is a dead coyote.
You know, the type of guys that nearly wiped out the bison, wolves and beavers.

I'm afraid I don't know.

Are they related to the guys that kept said population alive for thousands of years prior to government intervention?

 

[Magnus]

First you have to ask yourself, is there a reward for this?

Then, ask yourself , can I buy Mag...uh Myself a new firearm with it?

Will I feel guilty firing said firearm knowing it was bought with snitch money?

Lastly, ask yourself, will their actions now result in horrible consequences down the road?

 

[Criticalt]

I'm afraid I don't know.

Are they related to the guys that kept said population alive for thousands of years prior to government intervention?

Back then whitetail deer had no value other than food, if they did, those people would have decimated them.
They werent as big as bison or as valuable as beaver.
Prior to whites coming here, all animals were doing fine. Once the hoards of foreigners found value in certain wildlife, they killed them.
These days some people feel the need to kill as much as possible even though they dont need it.

 

[Robin]

The Bison were wiped out by disease not hunters, a peril they still face, but the fallacy continues.
"Prior to whites coming here, all animals were doing fine." If you can find a mammoth you might cue it in.
Robin

 

[dubleuhb]

You oughta see up here where I live, tons of apple orchards and way to many nuisance permits handed out. I was asked to come over one time to thin the herd, it was sickening. I took one home to fill the freezer, 23 more got dumped in a hole and buried, all with a ECO standing there. I asked why not have them processed and sent to the soup kitchens? Cost and fit for consumption was what I was told, I never got sick on the one I kept.

I was asked again, never went back, I had no idea that's what they did with them. That was about 15 years ago, they still do it every year and that was just one farm. The screwed up thing is they only let a couple people hunt thier property during the season and I know those guys and they are all after trophies.

 

[Darth]

Back then whitetail deer had no value other than food, if they did, those people would have decimated them.
They werent as big as bison or as valuable as beaver.
Prior to whites coming here, all animals were doing fine. Once the hoards of foreigners found value in certain wildlife, they killed them.
These days some people feel the need to kill as much as possible even though they dont need it.

What is this, a BLM rally?

I'm not sure if you're aware, but the white race existed before doe tags.

 

[ADK]

My property is located in the DMP area of 9P. I had a point and still was not enough to get a Doe Tag. Missed out last year as well. Oh well, life goes on.

Now for my hypothetical question...

Say there are out of State residents that have land near-by, we'll say they come up each and every year to hunt. During conversations, they tell you that they have never received a Doe tag for the area. This year will be the same due to the fact that there are none available for Out of Staters.... They will shoot and kill doe; no question. They will shoot big, small and tiny, they do not care.

Hypothetically, they do this again this year, do I turn them in to the DEC? Or just turn a blind eye?

-------------------------------------------
So what is really your complaint? No doe tag plain and simple. I have known of some who get a tag in one area and take in a different area.
These shrills who are city slicker weekend hunters know little about the deer population and what factors determine the numbers. Weather
and food availability are the most important. The number of hunters in NYS has been declining for years and not because of the deer population.

Frankly I could card less what another hunter does as long as he eats all the meat. I have seen enough Slob hunters shoot a deer and don't even bother to look around for the animal which is probably within 100 yards. When you go hunting and see mostly doe's dose that mean all the bucks have been shot off or are they wise enough to head for deep cover unseen by most hunters who rarely venture more than a three hundred yards from a road.

There is always black powder and bow hunting. One thing for sure I would not do the DEC's job for them.

 

[Bushmaster]

Two types of people hunt deer. 1.( a Sportsman hunts) 2.( A person who just kills wildlife)

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Doe permits ae given in areas that the auto insurance companies have lobbied. More deer mean more deer auto collisions. Adding up to 100s of thousand of dollars.

Think about it.

 

[Bushmaster]

People who just go out and kill deer, instead of the rules, laws etc... Get areas to hunt, public, state land etc... closed down. Then not being able to hunt those lands ya get more deer...

Think about it....

 

[Bushmaster]

My property is located in the DMP area of 9P. I had a point and still was not enough to get a Doe Tag. Missed out last year as well. Oh well, life goes on.

Now for my hypothetical question...

Say there are out of State residents that have land near-by, we'll say they come up each and every year to hunt. During conversations, they tell you that they have never received a Doe tag for the area. This year will be the same due to the fact that there are none available for Out of Staters.... They will shoot and kill doe; no question. They will shoot big, small and tiny, they do not care.

Hypothetically, they do this again this year, do I turn them in to the DEC? Or just turn a blind eye?

You should ask this on a hunting forum with sportsman. On here your seen as a Cop.... You'll never get real answers from a hunter On here .....

 

[Bushmaster]

Because NYS (and conversely, every elected government body), represents the interest of the people as a whole rather than the individual who thinks they own wildlife and can do what they want with it.

Man did that with Buffalo to about extinction... Until conservation laws were put out to keep numbers intact. There is a difference between conservation and welfare of wildlife. Both need to be abided by !!

 

[GOPerfect]

I have only been hunting for a couple of years. I am attempting to learn as I go. I figured this would be a good place to learn a bit.

Figured I would get some smartass answers, thanks for not letting me down.

Maybe it is time....

 

[Robin]

Again, Buffalo were not hunted to the brink of extinction. It was disease.
Robin

 

[Robin]

I have only been hunting for a couple of years. I am attempting to learn as I go. I figured this would be a good place to learn a bit.

Figured I would get some smartass answers, thanks for not letting me down.

Maybe it is time....

Too many 'what if''s' GOP. I can imagine variables that would prompt me to turn them in and those that would tell me to let it go. So it depends.
Robin

 

[Bushmaster]

Again, Buffalo were not hunted to the brink of extinction. It was disease.
Robin

I said ABOUT.....

 

[Bushmaster]

This is NOT hunting..... This is killing wildlife.

 

[Bushmaster]

I have only been hunting for a couple of years. I am attempting to learn as I go. I figured this would be a good place to learn a bit.

Figured I would get some smartass answers, thanks for not letting me down.

Maybe it is time....

Your on a gun forum, not a hunting forum. I bet over 50% of gun forum members on ANY forum do NOT hunt.

 

[Bushmaster]

So I was in a store, person I see is stealing stuff, should I turn him in? I myself won't do the correct thing, but I myself and others get fucked in future because of it. Prices on products go up because of theft TRUE!! Insurance rates go up because of theft TRUE!!! Same thing with scumbag hunters who ruin it for rest of us... Period!!!

 

[Bushmaster]

My point is that human population has taken over land for wildlife, and hunters both. You get scumbag hunters who just add to the problem. This is not the 70's, farmers, land owners etc... are worried about scumbag hunters etc... giving permission to hunt for getting sued etc.. Then ya get rich people who rip out a woods and put in a home, then call people like me when I was licensed to come get a Coon out of there attic.. WTF.... YOU tore out his woods and moved in to his home !!! Learn how to live with the wildlife, I invite them here with pond etc..., but not in my home lol.... Learn how to have them on your land.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Like I said before, I think the deer population is nowhere near being endangered. When I drive to the train station every morning, I see many deer that I almost hit. Whole families of them. At least 4 times a week on the same route, I see blood and meat on the road. That's just from a 10 mile drive.

When I used to drive the whole 60 miles to work, you could triple that. I've hit 3 myself.

 

[kev74]

Like I said before, I think the deer population is nowhere near being endangered. When I drive to the train station every morning, I see many deer that I almost hit. Whole families of them. At least 4 times a week on the same route, I see blood and meat on the road. That's just from a 10 mile drive.

When I used to drive the whole 60 miles to work, you could triple that. I've hit 3 myself.

Orange County is in a whole different situation than the great white north. You can get doe permits all over the place here, then go back for more.