Is 300 Blackout that good, a gimmick, and what are advantages??

[Edwardteach72]

When you have to start comparing the best loads available (in 300blk) to the most standard loads (in x39) that should tell you something


I was all about the 300blk until I really wanted to make a deer "pistol" or even one in a rifle... after again hearing from those in the know on here then going off an doing more research (and learning ballistics isnt just how fast something is going and the weight) I have made a complete 180 and the 300 really is a gimmick and there are other newerish rounds out there (aka 6.8) that are just all around better for what people claim the 300 is best at

 

[Marine Cpl]

It depends on what want it for. If you aren't the type of guy that likes to stock multiple guns and calibers, the .300 BO can work for you.

Even in a state like this one where we can't have silencers, loading your .300 BO with subsonics is a benefit for home defense since you won't blow your ear drums out and get blasted with concussion. It'll still be loud but you eliminate the flash and concussion. They also have good subsonic loads that expand to over an inch with decent penetration. Lehigh makes such a load. A full-blown rifle round indoors will fuck you up if you don't have hearing protection and I'm betting that if shit goes bump in the night, you aren't going to take the time to put on hearing protection.

You can also use it for hunting by switching to 110 gr supersonics going at 2400 fps from a 16 inch barrel. Contrary to the naysayers out there, the 110 grain has taken many deer within 200 yards. In most places here, it's difficult to even see deer over 200 yards away in the thick brush.

And for self defense/ SHTF, you have a decent rifle with decent ballistics just like the AK. The AK with 123 gr ball rounds going at the same speed and diameter as the Blackout's 110 gr has killed thousands upon thousands of people throughout countless wars. 13 less grains then the AK isn't going to make a difference. You'll still have a 200 yard gun that'll fuck up someone's day. In self defense/ SHTF, you aren't going to engage targets past 200 yards anyway. Most if not all combat engagements will be under a hundred yards. This was proven in places like Iraq.

It's funny that people here think they'll be engaging live targets at 400 yards. It will never happen. Most don't even have access to a damned range that has over 200 yards and when they do they shoot all day at a hundred yards.

The .300 BO is a decent all-purpose gun. A .223 can't serve that purpose if you want a quieter indoors gun. The 6.8 can't either if you go subsonic. You'll need a different barrel with a faster twist rate and an adjustment of your gas system. And let's not talk about the lack of commercially available subsonic loads for the 6.8. All the .300 BO requires is a magazine change.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

I've never seen another caliber get so much hate. It's a gun that shoots bullets. What more do you need? You can buy more than one gun you know. Not every gun has to be super tactically long range accurate. How many here do long range shooting? I doubt many.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I've never seen another caliber get so much hate. It's a gun that shoots bullets. What more do you need? You can buy more than one gun you know. Not every gun has to be super tactically long range accurate. How many here do long range shooting? I doubt many.

Not many. They all get these high powered variable scopes to shoot 100 yards. They are so focused on distance that they even use them for home defense on a .223.

 

[Podmonkey]

I've never seen another caliber get so much hate. It's a gun that shoots bullets. What more do you need? You can buy more than one gun you know. Not every gun has to be super tactically long range accurate. How many here do long range shooting? I doubt many.

Not many. They all get these high powered variable scopes to shoot 100 yards. They are so focused on distance that they even use them for home defense on a .223.

True I suppose but, while a little off topic, you don't need to be shooting at long range to enjoy the benefits of a scope. You can go for high precision at intermediate ranges. Try shooting the caps of bottles and such.
That being said I don't think 300BLK lends itself to variable optics much. It's a close range cartridge.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

-True I suppose but, while a little off topic, you don't need to be shooting at long range to enjoy the benefits of a scope.
-That being said I don't think 300BLK lends itself to variable optics much. It's a close range cartridge.

 

[Marine Cpl]

True I suppose but, while a little off topic, you don't need to be shooting at long range to enjoy the benefits of a scope. You can go for high precision at intermediate ranges. Try shooting the caps of bottles and such.
That being said I don't think 300BLK lends itself to variable optics much. It's a close range cartridge.

If punching paper for cloverleafs is what someone fancies for competition or just for their own enjoyment, then I guess. However, most don't do that. They'll instead shit on the Blackout that can outshoot most of them within 200 yards while they gear up with a gun optimized for long distance that they'll never shoot at those ranges for play time or in real life scenarios.

There's a guy here who I won't mention that has shit on red dots in the past. If the rifle isn't set up for long distance with an 18 inch barrel and 1x8 scope, it's no good according to him because long distance shots are much more common than combat engagements at 200 yards or less.

And a .300 will shoot 200 yards all day long with more punch for breaking through hard objects like bricks than a .223 ever will.

 

[meketrefe]

just follow the parody here. The thing is they look they are serious about it.
This guys story was the source of inspiration for American sniper.
lmao

 

[Podmonkey]

If punching paper for cloverleafs is what someone fancies for competition or just for their own enjoyment, then I guess. However, most don't do that. They'll instead shit on the Blackout that can outshoot most of them within 200 yards while they gear up with a gun optimized for long distance that they'll never shoot at those ranges for play time or in real life scenarios.

There's a guy here who I won't mention that has shit on red dots in the past. If the rifle isn't set up for long distance with an 18 inch barrel and 1x8 scope, it's no good according to him because long distance shots are much more common than combat engagements at 200 yards or less.

And a .300 will shoot 200 yards all day long with more punch for breaking through hard objects like bricks than a .223 ever will.

Well, I don't like 300BLK mainly because it $1 a round. If I am going to spend that much I'd rather have the 6.8. Hell, I can get a proper .30, the 308, for much cheaper in 7.62x51 M80 guise.
I like my ammo reasonably priced so I can shoot a lot of it. 300BLK is just a boutique round. 9mm or .45 is fine for getting your suppressed giggles and those may even be more effective.
Super sonic 300BLK loads are just underwhelming.
Like someone else said "you can have more than one gun"
So why get so hung up on the super/sub dichotomy of the 300BLK? If the OP really has an itch for an AR15 in something other than 5.56 then 6.8 SPC gets my vote. Or if shooting at extended range is a possibility then either 6.5 Grendel or .224 Valkyrie might be fun.
If the OP has deep pockets or reloads something like the .458 SOCOM might fun to dabble in.
I am interested in the .458 SOCOM myself. Maybe I get a Tromix .458 someday?

 

[Edwardteach72]

Well, I don't like 300BLK mainly because it $1 a round. If I am going to spend that much I'd rather have the 6.8. Hell, I can get a proper .30, the 308, for much cheaper in 7.62x51 M80 guise.
I like my ammo reasonably priced so I can shoot a lot of it. 300BLK is just a boutique round. 9mm or .45 is fine for getting your suppressed giggles and those may even be more effective.
Super sonic 300BLK loads are just underwhelming.
Like someone else said "you can have more than one gun"
So why get so hung up on the super/sub dichotomy of the 300BLK? If the OP really has an itch for an AR15 in something other than 5.56 then 6.8 SPC gets my vote. Or if shooting at extended range is a possibility then either 6.5 Grendel or .224 Valkyrie might be fun.
If the OP has deep pockets or reloads something like the .458 SOCOM might fun to dabble in.
I am interested in the .458 SOCOM myself. Maybe I get a Tromix .458 someday?

Side note I am kind of interested in a .458 bolt action pistol.. (black collar arms "pork sword" chassis for 700 style action)

 

[Marine Cpl]

Right. It's not an end all caliber. But it's right for some. The pump action shotgun to this day is right for some who only want one gun. The BO can be that for some.

It can also be the right gun for someone who wants it only for suppression.

It isn't a gimmick caliber. Even unsuppressed, it beats the .223 in structure penetration of bricks and wood within normal combat distances.

 

[meketrefe]

Right. It's not an end all caliber. But it's right for some. The pump action shotgun to this day is right for some who only want one gun. The BO can be that for some.

It can also be the right gun for someone who wants it only for suppression.

It isn't a gimmick caliber. Even unsuppressed, it beats the .223 in structure penetration of bricks and wood within normal combat distances.

Negative.
The barack fails to penetrate many hard barriers where the 5.56 does not. Same problem the x39 has. This added.to starting slow speeds provides stupid trajectories and reduces effective range otherwise you will see lots of pin hole wounding.
This is all well documented and why the light for caliber choice after WWII was displaced out of service by all major armies.
The chinese went the 6mm route that is the right way IMO althoug their new service round could be better.
You should know this as certified cast iron pan tester!! Lol

 

[meketrefe]

What are you giys getting with the BO 10-12" pistol lets say with the popular hornady ammo?
I knowit sucks but be honest.

 

[fnfalguy]

Er, had one Mr. Thaiguy

Yeah, i have one.

it is a suppressed, 8inch, select fire.

It is awesome......

Just sayin’.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Well, I don't like 300BLK mainly because it $1 a round. If I am going to spend that much I'd rather have the 6.8. Hell, I can get a proper .30, the 308, for much cheaper in 7.62x51 M80 guise.

This is a consideration I forget about myself. I forget that most people don't reload but many on here at least do. If you reload then this is almost a non issue. If you don't then yes 300 BLK is expensive.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

What are you giys getting with the BO 10-12" pistol lets say with the popular hornady ammo?
I knowit sucks but be honest.

What grain? I don't have any 110 grain projectiles at the moment but I can get some and do some testing if that's the one you want to see. I have a 10.5 inch pistol. But what would you consider to be sucky for hitting paper and steel at 100 yards or less?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Negative.
The barack fails to penetrate many hard barriers where the 5.56 does not. Same problem the x39 has. This added.to starting slow speeds provides stupid trajectories and reduces effective range otherwise you will see lots of pin hole wounding.
This is all well documented and why the light for caliber choice after WWII was displaced out of service by all major armies.
The chinese went the 6mm route that is the right way IMO althoug their new service round could be better.
You should know this as certified cast iron pan tester!! Lol

I'm talking about bricks, wood, and masonry not armor just like the 7.62x39.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Slow speeds provides stupid trajectories and reduces effective range otherwise you will see lots of pin hole wounding.

It depends on what your priorities are. Within 200 yards, the trajectories aren't that bad. You are talking about 3 inches at 200 yards. That's totally fine within normal combat engagements which is what us Americans would be fighting at if it ever came to that.

As far as pinholing goes, that's a compromise as well. If hiding behind cover, the slower and heavier rifle round will make it through the barrier (brick, stucco, wood) easier than the lighter and faster rifle round. Sure, on an unobstructed target the lighter and faster creates a bigger wound profile but behind a barrier the faster and lighter may not get to you. This was evidenced in combat. Mud huts fragmented the 5.56 while the 7.62x39 went through. A pinhole will still kill you as evidenced by all the countless deaths at the end of an AK-47 and SKS.

So what do you want? Fast and light with poor penetration through structures or slow and heavy with good penetration through structures at the cost of a smaller wound profile? Do you want a flatter trajectory for shots at 300 yards and beyond or adequate trajectories at normal combat engagements within 200 yards. It's all user preference.

For me, I'd rather go slow and heavy for a rifle since most combat engagements will be within 200 yards anyway. And I'd rather turn cover into concealment at the cost of a smaller wound profile. You pay for everything. Everything has its pluses and minus. Level 4 armor and above will stop both. Both will kill you with no obstructions. One a little better than the other but you'll still die from blood loss and organ failure with the smaller wound profile. Especially if hit multiple times.

A 7.62x51 NATO FMJ at 500 yards is going 1600 fps. It has killed well at that pinhole velocity and will continue doing so in the future.

 

[Prudii]

Do you have a 30cal can?
Do you reload?
Do you want to shoot subsonic rounds though said can?
If you said yes to all the questions above go ahead and buy a 300blk.

If not buy something else. 6.5 Grendel is my recommendation. Amazing ballistics and is great for hunting. Out of a 16" barrel with the right load its super sonic out to 1000yards.

6.8 SPC is also decent with better energy under 400 yards but it quickly drops off and if you want to make the rifle into a 1000 yard paper puncher you can swap to .224V with only a barrel change.

7.62x39 is also a viable alternative but I would just get a Saiga sporter then

 

[meketrefe]

It depends on what your priorities are. Within 200 yards, the trajectories aren't that bad. You are talking about 3 inches at 200 yards. That's totally fine within normal combat engagements which is what us Americans would be fighting at if it ever came to that.

Enough so they are obsolete for military use. That is why they were phased out and displaced by lighter faster bores.
The effective range of the modern cartridge is 500m for 5.56 and 800m for the 7.62x51.
The matter of fact the average engagement range has been increased in the last 20 years because of the middle east war theater.
The latest generation bullets do amazingly well in hard barrier as well as a distance, much better than the M855 that had several problems
yet it beat the AK round (And obviously the blackout) at many things.
Still the M855 is a good plentiful patrol round but I would probably not choose it over the 64gr PP from Winchester.
For a high performance defensive civilian round the 77gr TMK from black hills is an amazing round and it works pretty much
like an M193 at short distances but also at long distances and it outperforms the blackout from short barreled 11" carbines
understanding that this type of barrel doesn't make much sense anyway unless you have pistol rounds.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Er, had one Mr. Thaiguy

Technically it is still mine.......waiting on the last few C notes.....

 

[meketrefe]

Do you have a 30cal can?
Do you reload?
Do you want to shoot subsonic rounds though said can?
If you said yes to all the questions above go ahead and buy a 300blk.

If not buy something else. 6.5 Grendel is my recommendation. Amazing ballistics and is great for hunting. Out of a 16" barrel with the right load its super sonic out to 1000yards.

6.8 SPC is also decent with better energy under 400 yards but it quickly drops off and if you want to make the rifle into a 1000 yard paper puncher you can swap to .224V with only a barrel change.

7.62x39 is also a viable alternative but I would just get a Saiga sporter then

Hi.
The 6.5Grendel will barely do 1000 yards from a 24" barrel. From a 16" you will be lucky to pass 2400fps with a decent 120-125gr bullet.
In the past I struggled to get 2450 from the 18" poly barrel. So it is most likely to hit transsonic range as it approaches the 1000 yards and
heading starting to the ground with around 13.5 mils and 3 mils wind with 5mph only.
So it is great but regardless of what Bill Alexander or other salesmen say it is a good 300-400 yards since after 300 for anything serious the bullets
are not good due to the high impact threshold for proper activation.
For example SST from hornady (Great round btw) is good to 1900-1800fps pretty much like the nosler green tips.
Get any bonded or tsx and you don't want to drop below the ideal 2100fps and you are starting with 2400 or less.
Still good for chucks and coyotes with match bullets at longer distances but not good for 1000 yards target due tot the low starting speeds.
One will miss a lot. That is why I built the 6.5BR for the AR15 because off the gate is 250fps-300 fps faster than the grendel.
Even the 6.5BR that is an actual 1000yards capable rifle from a reasonable 20" barrel has its limitation and it is not the best for any serious
1000 yards mission.

The 6.8 is another 300 yards hunter. but in that distance it can go both ways send some nice 120gr or push a stout bullet like the 95gr TTSX
at the speeds that need to be injected in the game and why it is so brutal at those distances. At a long range it requires more fenese and manipualtion
with certain bullets. But can also send smaller screamers for varmints.
Overall the 6.5 is better for those who want to pop cucks at longer ranges or punch some paper but the 6.8 is a better geometry and the
base gives room for stronger bolts.
The grendel geometry with 28degree on the shoulder can be challenging with certain mags and ramps to feed properly while the 6.8 was
designed for a sevice round so it works like a charm.

The 224V is another stupid fashion. Take any 6mm bullet in the same price range and can do the same thing and more and better.
Something that already existed since the 60's with the 6mm WASP dies if one uses 6.8 brass and 6mm latest generation bullets.

The only thing one will have to use a 8 twist obviously to use the best bullets the 6mm has to offer.

And this will give a substantial advantage over the 223 because while one looses speed, one can now use much better bullets including hunting
bullets. the 223 doesn't have a good assortment or track record for hunting and the 6mm starts where the 22 caliber ends with
great bullets for anything. This is actually a very simple cartrige.
If nosler were smart they would have released this with the rebated rim and not the useless 22 nosler.
I don't even know what kind of marketing goon would think this had a chance to work.

For the 7.62x39 I would get a hybrid chamber and bore so with a 308 button one can reload using 30 cal bullets and
also shoot the surplus steel. With good brass cases one can pump this caliber and it leaves the BO in the dust while
one has the option to shoot cheap steel loads.

I am not tying to correct you personally or anything but just setting the record straight because there is a lot of BS published
everywhere including reloading manuals, magazines and so on. Those are the ballistics fake news.

 

[meketrefe]

I'm talking about bricks, wood, and masonry not armor just like the 7.62x39.

so cars, glass, metal doors, average wood panels, plaster with wire mesh and concrete do not count.
The military tests against everything putting special attention in hard barrier because of the armor and transports.And it is not anti-material like the 7.62x51 but it has to have certain anti-material properties although for car stoppers (multiple check points) there is always a gunner on site with 30 cal minimum.

and you forgot the cast iron pan!! LOL

 

[Marine Cpl]

Enough so they are obsolete for military use. That is why they were phased out and displaced by lighter faster bores.
The effective range of the modern cartridge is 500m for 5.56 and 800m for the 7.62x51.
The matter of fact the average engagement range has been increased in the last 20 years because of the middle east war theater.
The latest generation bullets do amazingly well in hard barrier as well as a distance, much better than the M855 that had several problems
yet it beat the AK round (And obviously the blackout) at many things.
Still the M855 is a good plentiful patrol round but I would probably not choose it over the 64gr PP from Winchester.
For a high performance defensive civilian round the 77gr TMK from black hills is an amazing round and it works pretty much
like an M193 at short distances but also at long distances and it outperforms the blackout from short barreled 11" carbines
understanding that this type of barrel doesn't make much sense anyway unless you have pistol rounds.

Same way as the .223 is becoming obsolete right? That's why they are looking for heavier. What works in Iraq (fast and light) doesn't work in Afghanistan or vice versa. That's why slow and heavy took priority in Afghanistan. More kills were made from mountain top to mountain top with M240's on tripods that pinholed at those large distances than 5.56mm. In Iraq it was the opposite. There is no perfect round yet.

 

[Marine Cpl]

so cars, glass, metal doors, average wood panels, plaster with wire mesh and concrete do not count.
The military tests against everything putting special attention in hard barrier because of the armor and transports.And it is not anti-material like the 7.62x51 but it has to have certain anti-material properties although for car stoppers (multiple check points) there is always a gunner on site with 30 cal minimum.

and you forgot the cast iron pan!! LOL

Speed does better on metal, armor, and flesh. Grain does better on medium barriers like wood, brick, concrete, ect.

I thought you knew that.

 

[meketrefe]

Speed does better on metal, armor, and flesh. Grain does better on medium barriers like wood, brick, concrete, ect.

I thought you knew that.

After a bullets is altered through pretty heterogeneous media there is no way to say what it will do. consistency is gone.
However, modern arrowhead design perpetrators are designed specifically to work well in several critical media with predicted results.
This was extensively tested by Liberty ammunition and why they sued the US Army and won because this nice design was stolen from them.
As a result the M80 has been replaced with the 130gr equivalent. Still there is the debate between lead no lead, army/marines. both have
a slight pros and cons.
We can say AK steel rounds and projectiles are obsolete for any role, any time anywhere. They are cheap that is the advantage for the ones who use them.
however AK for affordable use and then reload is a great and simple round. specially with a hybrid chamber, good brass and 308 bullets.

All these facts are well tested and documented regardless of our personal opinions in the tacticool forums.

I know a little but I am always learning.
I believe we only stop learning when we die.

 

[meketrefe]

The blackout has Gonorrhea!! lol

 

[Marine Cpl]

The blackout has Gonorrhea!! lol

The caliber that doesn't go away. It'll be with you forever, Meke.

 

[@thewheels]

Slightly OT:
The decision between 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 for me came to down to ammo price. I don't have the space or time to reload yet so this is based solely on the current cost of factory ammo.
The cheap Grendel ammo can be found for as little as .25-.30 per and the good hunting or ELD rounds are roughly a dollar per.
I can afford to stock up a few cases of the cheap stuff for plinking and try a few boxes of the good Hornady and Federal stuff for hunting/target.
There's no 6.8 ammo less than .60 or .65 per.

 

[Phauxtoe]

suppressor host!
so not here in NY!