Marines see a shortage of optics!

[eochief66]

The Marine Corps sees a shortage of optics to train young recruits with.


Marines Face Shortage of Rifle Optics for New Recruits at Boot Camp

 

[Deplorable Me]

Marines using optics in boot camp?

Snowflakes everywhere.

 

[repete]

Time to go shopping! I am kind surprised they don't start them out with iron sights and then transition them over.

 

[Mr. terzmo]

With a 750+ billion dollar budget ? WTF

 

[Modean]

Or maybe train with iron sights? I know, I'm old.

 

[Podmonkey]

Marines using optics in boot camp?

Snowflakes everywhere.

If that is what is basic issue for a Marine infantryman would it not be wise and desirable to have these optics available for training? Train as you fight. If you fight with optics you must train with them as well. Iron sights have been surpassed by electro optics and are now supplementary. Red dots and ACOGs provide soldiers with an increased hit probability, it has nothing to do with snowflake culture. Many of the military issue optics are available commercially as well, no doubt unit level purchases can serve as a stopgap solution for a time if necessary.

 

[Shadow2]

They can pick up a few hundred Chinese knock offs for $50 each. Why not, Chinese build the rest of our crap.

 

[Podmonkey]

They can pick up a few hundred Chinese knock offs for $50 each. Why not, Chinese build the rest of our crap.

Because it needs to be Marine proof. Only ACOGs and Aimpoints are sealed well enough to keep Marines from shoving crayons into the internals.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Because it needs to be Marine proof. Only ACOGs and Aimpoints are sealed well enough to keep Marines from shoving crayons into the internals.

They only eat crayons. Not to worry. Ask will.

 

[GOPerfect]

Remember when we all trained with basic iron sights?

Army hit and qualified 300 meter targets with old, basic irons.

Jarheads, they are, I guess better shots.... 500 Meters with the basic iron.

 

[Acer-m14]

and when your optic fails .. now what ?? teach them fkin Irons

 

[Podmonkey]

Remember when we all trained with basic iron sights?

Army hit and qualified 300 meter targets with old, basic irons.

Jarheads, they are, I guess better shots.... 500 Meters with the basic iron.

Well, there is no gainsaying the advantages of an optic.
As I stated in my range report at the 300 yard station of my range I can't even see the plates that are up there without magnification due to vegetation and poor sightlines. At 6x I can see the plates and get hits on them. Can't hit what you can't see. So yes, I think its important to supply soldiers with the optics they need, in initial trading as well. Pretty soon we are going to see low power variables start showing up on infantry carbines.

 

[Marine Cpl]

and when your optic fails .. now what ?? teach them fkin Irons

They still teach both.

 

[Podmonkey]

and when your optic fails .. now what ?? teach them fkin Irons

That's what BUIS are for. That said Aimpoints and ACOGs are absurdly durable. It takes a lot for then to fail. There was a Marine whose ACOG took a bullet, was severely damaged but was still usable.

 

[GOPerfect]

I am not anti optics. I am getting old, hell, every rifle I own has optics.

I was only remembering when...

 

[Marine Cpl]

I am not anti optics. I am getting old, hell, every rifle I own has optics.

I was only remembering when...

You had an A2 with handguards that popped off and slings you had to Jerry Rig with 550 cord and duct tape to make a patrol sling.

 

[GOPerfect]

You had an A2 with handguards that popped off and slings you had to Jerry Rig with 550 cord and duct tape to make a patrol sling.

I first qualified with an A1

 

[Podmonkey]

I am not anti optics. I am getting old, hell, every rifle I own has optics.

I was only remembering when...

Me too. 80-90s vintage 11B hand-me-downs no less. M16-fuckin'-A2s man. Never made a lick of sense to me. 13M, MLRS crewmember. Ever seen the inside of a M270 SPLL?

Its tight as hell in there! Especially with a full crew of three.
Not any better in the M985 HEMTTs

Imagine trying to wedge a long ass M16 in either vehicle. I actually think a Garand would fit better, it has a flush fit magazine.

We should have been issued M4s. The Mechanics were.
Even better would have been something like a P90 or an MP7. Or even some kind of 9mm submachine gun. I think some type of aviation units had MP5s issued, that would have been fine. A 13M is dead meat if caught in direct contact with the enemy anyway, 5.56, 5.7/4.6, or 9mm it don't matter, a Mike or a Papa, are all equal kinds of fucked at that point anyway. We didn't even have pintle or ring mounts for our M249s! A mounted M240 would have been our best chance at survival frankly. Didn't have em. Not even in the arms room.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I first qualified with an A1

Damn Sgt Major.

 

[Podmonkey]

The A1 was the better config. All they needed to to was give it a 1:7 barrel.

 

[Modean]

I first qualified with an A1

With full rock n' roll. None of this 3 round burst stuff.

 

[Deplorable Me]

If that is what is basic issue for a Marine infantryman would it not be wise and desirable to have these optics available for training? Train as you fight. If you fight with optics you must train with them as well. Iron sights have been surpassed by electro optics and are now supplementary. Red dots and ACOGs provide soldiers with an increased hit probability, it has nothing to do with snowflake culture. Many of the military issue optics are available commercially as well, no doubt unit level purchases can serve as a stopgap solution for a time if necessary.

Basic no, 0311 school yes. Master the basics before moving up. Optics are an asset but also a potential point of failure.

 

[Podmonkey]

Basic no, 0311 school yes. Master the basics before moving up. Optics are an asset but also a potential point of failure.

The likelihood of failure of ACOGs and Aimpoints is very low. Nobody is achieving mastery in intial training but I agree one should learn irons before anything else.