POF “Other” rifle

Saltwater60 · May 9, 2019

Lots of talk on these lately. I haven’t seen one in my area and I don’t think it’s worth the risk of purchase in my opinion. Can’t see how they pass muster. Remember this is NYS and I think you’d be arrested and prosecuted even if they are legal. That DA would do everything they can to put you behind bars in a lot of NYS.

Uzi · May 9, 2019

Pictures or it's all lies.

garyv350 · May 9, 2019

Other shops been selling different manufacturers versions for almost 2 years. Nothing new.

Airborneguy · May 9, 2019

Not a good idea.

Marine Cpl · May 9, 2019

These "Others" fit the exact description of an AR pistol in an AW configuration. You'd have to prove to the arresting officer and the jury that it's not a pistol.

Here is an AR pistol. See the similarities?

REF · May 9, 2019

i would do her

REF · May 9, 2019

If my FFL would do the transfer , I’d pick one up

Marine Cpl · May 9, 2019

BR3ND0 said:
I know that. But wasn’t the shouldering of said pistol braces now deemed accepted. Allowable.
And also the POF usa includes paperwork with notations the explain how this classifies as “other” firearm to justify sales in NY , CA

I guess last step is hire superb lawyer. Lol

My point is that you can have whatever paper you want and that doesn't mean anything to the arresting officer.

If you and I were in a car and got pulled over for whatever reason and searched, they aren't going to let you go because you have a "other firearm" and arrest me because I have an AR pistol when we both have the exact same gun.

You may beat it in court or you may not but you'll go to court.

Podmonkey · May 9, 2019

Again if you do it I'd have a good 2A lawyer on speed dial

spat · May 9, 2019

BR3ND0 said:
I know that. But wasn’t the shouldering of said pistol braces now deemed accepted. Allowable.
And also the POF usa includes paperwork with notations the explain how this classifies as “other” firearm to justify sales in NY , CA

I guess last step is hire superb lawyer. Lol

The ATF would classify them as a perfectly legal other, just as you have said.

NYS would call them a pistol and require them to be on a permit. They would also classify them as AWs for a dozen different reasons (unless you have a fixed mag).

seezur · May 9, 2019

I mean I think it’s probably splitting hairs at that point. I’ve known one person who got off several pretty serious firearms violations who is now going to prison for another firearm violation, but only because the sheer amount of shit he’s done. A friend of a friend got away with no time for an unregistered pistol and standard cap mags.

Basically if you have lots of money and can afford to miss work and don’t mind the stress, you might be able to beat the charges if you are caught. It’s also up to the officer (sadly, they’re almost certainly going to arrest), the DA, judge etc. I had an intimate dealing with the legal system and court (civil, not criminal) and I can tell you that a really good lawyer will eviscerate the opposing counsel, so research and reach out if this is a concern.

I would say, if anything, it’d be a better idea to do things that are genuine good faith efforts towards compliance. For example maybe a Thordsen FRS III stock is legal or maybe it’s illegal, but you made an effort to comply with an intentionally vague law, and if you then have money, time etc. AND get charged a good lawyer can more likely than not get you cleared easily. They know the SAFE act is unconstitutional and they don’t want it getting shredded through precedents set in the higher courts.

I’m all for civil disobedience, though I don’t practice it myself when it comes to my guns. I think it’d be a stretch to prove that this “other” is a good faith effort at compliance versus a “fuck you this is technically sort of legal so you can’t touch me” act of rebellion.

togmaster · May 10, 2019

REF said:
If my FFL would do the transfer , I’d pick one up

There are several near me who do and did.

And the 415 is a sweet little gun and a lot of fun to run in training classes or so I am told...

BDinPutnam · May 10, 2019

I would like to see the documentation that this is somehow legally different than a Shockwave; are we confusing NFA definitions with 4473 definitions again? Either way neither are an AOW for NFA purposes and both would he considered "Other" by ATF for 4473 purposes, so I'm not sure who is claiming there is a legal difference between the two (or how or why).

Anyhoo- in NY state, I would feel perfectly comfortable buying a Shockwave and putting a brace on it (as several here have); this thing- I wouldnt touch with a 100' pole.

SuffolkArms · May 11, 2019

To be honest, this bullshit isn't going to come to a head any time soon. LI Ammo just posted on LI Gun Club that the state police deems these SBRs because they consider the brace a stock NYSP and the Delta CT4-2A - Long Island Gun Club.

If that's true, how the hell do people have registered AR pistols with fixed magazines and pistol braces?? Under that reasoning they would be SBRs too. If we have no idea what's legal or illegal, you bet your average trooper off the street has no fucking idea either, the best they can do is call up the NYSP gun unit and have them figure it out... and with 5 years and no case law, I'd bet the NYSP gun unit and governor Cuomo himself are in a pact to keep it that way.

togmaster · May 11, 2019

Another stellar opinion from Troop L . WTF is it with these clowns?

Jem45472 · May 11, 2019

SuffolkArms said:
To be honest, this bullshit isn't going to come to a head any time soon. LI Ammo just posted on LI Gun Club that the state police deems these SBRs because they consider the brace a stock NYSP and the Delta CT4-2A - Long Island Gun Club.

If that's true, how the hell do people have registered AR pistols with fixed magazines and pistol braces?? Under that reasoning they would be SBRs too. If we have no idea what's legal or illegal, you bet your average trooper off the street has no fucking idea either, the best they can do is call up the NYSP gun unit and have them figure it out... and with 5 years and no case law, I'd bet the NYSP gun unit and governor Cuomo himself are in a pact to keep it that way.

Because the state police don't make the laws. A brace is a brace, not a stock. Could I get arrested with my ar pistol? Possibly, and it wouldn't surprise me by the state police. Will it aggravate me and cost me money? Yes. Will I lose in court? No fucking way. Not until the atf classifies a brace as a stock.

spat · May 11, 2019

Jem45472 said:
Because the state police don't make the laws. A brace is a brace, not a stock. Could I get arrested with my ar pistol? Possibly, and it wouldn't surprise me by the state police. Will it aggravate me and cost me money? Yes. Will I lose in court? No fucking way. Not until the atf classifies a brace as a stock.

You could get arrested with a ham sandwich if the officer decides to call it an SBR.

Airborneguy · May 11, 2019

spat said:
You could get arrested with a ham sandwich if the officer decides to call it an SBR.

Yes but if that happened the cop would be fired and no court would defend such actions. Get arrested with this “other” weapon and you better better every court you can afford to bring your case to is either going to convict you based on the Safe Act or invalidate the whole law, which is near nil happening.

spat · May 11, 2019

Airborneguy said:
Yes but if that happened the cop would be fired and no court would defend such actions. Get arrested with this “other” weapon and you better better every court you can afford to bring your case to is either going to convict you based on the Safe Act or invalidate the whole law, which is near nil happening.

Depends on the politics. Sometimes rediculous things get defended to the last dollar. Half the gun laws in the country are patently absurd, but they are defended.

Shoestring Machine Gun

Airborneguy · May 11, 2019

That’s the point I’m making. This “whatever” gun won’t pass any legal muster just because someone found a single definition not part of the penal law that says something different.

I meant that a literal ham sandwich defined by a cop as a gun would never pass legal muster. Calling this thing an “assault weapon” under NY’s laws on the other hand is 100% accurate.

Saltwater60 · May 11, 2019

Airborneguy said:
That’s the point I’m making. This “whatever” gun won’t pass any legal muster just because someone found a single definition not part of the penal law that says something different.

I meant that a literal ham sandwich defined by a cop as a gun would never pass legal muster. Calling this thing an “assault weapon” under NY’s laws on the other hand is 100% accurate.

Thank you for your opinion. I planned on staying away from these now I definitely will. Not worth the risk.

Airborneguy · May 12, 2019

Saltwater60 said:
Thank you for your opinion. I planned on staying away from these now I definitely will. Not worth the risk.

Anytime, I don’t want to see anyone here get in trouble. This opinion doesn’t mean I agree with such legal labels, I definitely don’t. But this is our reality.

Jem45472 · May 12, 2019

Let's just say someone got arrested with one of these "others" and decided not to plea bargain and fight the case. Other than spending a boatload of money, I would imagine the case would get dropped eventually because there is no definition in penal law for other, and until there is, I'm assuming the rifle would need to be returned. How do you see this scenario playing out @Airborneguy ?

POF “Other” rifle

9mm

20×102mm Vulcan

.308 Win

9mm

9mm

.357 mag

9mm

.338 Win Mag

9mm

9mm

.577 Tyrannosaur.

9mm

6.5 Creedmoor

6.5 Creedmoor

.577 Tyrannosaur.

.577 Tyrannosaur.

.700 Nitro Express

.40 S&W

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.475 A&M Magnum

.40 S&W

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.308 Win

.700 Nitro Express

.338 Win Mag

.700 Nitro Express

.338 Win Mag

20×102mm Vulcan

.338 Win Mag

.308 Win