Shirtless dad and son gun down neighbor

tirwin1

tirwin1

.475 A&M Magnum
Messages
17,109
Reaction score
47,398
Location
rochester
Anger makes people blind to reason or common sense. What a shame that an argument over a mattress led to someone's death.
 
Carlos Hathcock

Carlos Hathcock

.450/400 Nitro Ex
Messages
13,132
Reaction score
28,319
Location
Buffalo NY
1. The shooters were in the wrong. Murder, manslaughter, whatever.

2. The shootee continuously threatened engaged, whatever two people with firearms visible and in hand. I don't know if he was armed but you're outmatched not once, but twice.

I don't want to say the shootee was responsible but he made poor choices, not to mention putting his wife at risk as well.
 
libertysnake

libertysnake

.338 Win Mag
Messages
8,845
Reaction score
16,390
Location
New York
Airborneguy said:
This was clearly NOT self-defense. Bunch of fools all around.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The only thing that the guy in the orange shirt should have been doing is just backing away, and getting ready to call the police. Unless these fools were actively pointing at him, just back away and defuse -- you don't want to draw on a drawn gun unless you have no choice.
 
Blimey

Blimey

.450/400 Nitro Ex
Messages
11,274
Reaction score
16,250
Location
Western NY
Combined IQ of all four involved likely does (or did not) exceed 150.

Why did the old man who shot cover his head and duck away at the beginning (you can briefly see it), it's like he was avoiding being hit by something? Or maybe the blast from the shotgun freaked him out?

I think the shirtless fools figured they could use stand your ground, which maybe they will be able to, as maybe the orange guy did something.

Both are out on $25,000 bail,
Click to expand...
Can't believe they put that scratch together, even $2500 for a bail bond.
 
GOPerfect

GOPerfect

.950 JDJ
U.S. Military
Messages
32,243
Reaction score
74,213
Location
No longer Secret, thanks DR. Evil
Blimey said:
Combined IQ of all four involved likely does (or did not) exceed 150.

Why did the old man who shot cover his head and duck away at the beginning (you can briefly see it), it's like he was avoiding being hit by something? Or maybe the blast from the shotgun freaked him out?

I think the shirtless fools figured they could use stand your ground, which maybe they will be able to, as maybe the orange guy did something.

Can't believe they put that scratch together, even $2500 for a bail bond.
Click to expand...


Looked like a hunk of 2x4 was thrown at him
 
Mosinitis

Mosinitis

.338 Win Mag
Messages
8,470
Reaction score
7,873
Location
NY state
It does look like the guy who was shot was a threat. The fact they were shirtless means absolutely nothing. They came out of their home, didn't plan on being in public.
The wife was egging on her husband instead of trying to deescalate confrontation. Nobody likes garbage being dumped on their property.
 
Mosinitis

Mosinitis

.338 Win Mag
Messages
8,470
Reaction score
7,873
Location
NY state
If I was on the jury and based only on what I saw in that video, I wouldn't vote to convict. These people don't live in New York, they don't have to yield to violent bullies.
 
libertysnake

libertysnake

.338 Win Mag
Messages
8,845
Reaction score
16,390
Location
New York
Mosinitis said:
If I was on the jury and based only on what I saw in that video, I wouldn't vote to convict. These people don't live in New York, they don't have to yield to violent bullies.
Click to expand...

So, I might convict, and here is why. The guy in the orange shirt didn’t have a gun drawn, and I didn’t see him doing anything life threatening. So right off the bat, the response from the two dudes, that outnumbered the orange shirt guy, was two to one. So it’s extremely hard for me to see why it’s justified they both came out with weapons drawn.

In my view, when you unholster your weapon, you take on the responsibility to attempt to deescalate, even if you physically stand your ground. I didn’t really see that here, which to me makes me think they wanted this outcome.

Drawing of a weapon is a pretty fucking serious thing to be doing. Intent is everything, and if the shirtless dudes didn’t have intent to shoot they needed to be acting in a manner that was clearly indicating a defensive intent.
 
Mosinitis

Mosinitis

.338 Win Mag
Messages
8,470
Reaction score
7,873
Location
NY state
He played a game of chicken and he lost. Tough shit. Don't threaten people who are armed. They are not going to be convicted in TX.
The video doesn't show what he was doing at a point when shots were fired, but the sound and reaction indicates he took this a step further then yelling and threatening.
 
Blimey

Blimey

.450/400 Nitro Ex
Messages
11,274
Reaction score
16,250
Location
Western NY
libertysnake said:
So, I might convict, and here is why. The guy in the orange shirt didn’t have a gun drawn, and I didn’t see him doing anything life threatening. So right off the bat, the response from the two dudes, that outnumbered the orange shirt guy, was two to one. So it’s extremely hard for me to see why it’s justified they both came out with weapons drawn.

In my view, when you unholster your weapon, you take on the responsibility to attempt to deescalate, even if you physically stand your ground. I didn’t really see that here, which to me makes me think they wanted this outcome.

Drawing of a weapon is a pretty fucking serious thing to be doing. Intent is everything, and if the shirtless dudes didn’t have intent to shoot they needed to be acting in a manner that was clearly indicating a defensive intent.
Click to expand...
All true.

The fly in the ointment here is that stand your ground will mean that if there is any proof or doubt that the guy in orange was attacking or about to, they can get away with it.

This is despite every single person who has seen this video can agree that the guys who came out armed were morons (as was the guy in the orange shirt).

Both sides were happy to escalate their stupidity, but the guy who got shot was extra stupid because he had two guys who are losing so bad at life they leave their house with their shirt off (which means they were probably in it with their shirts off), armed, threatening to kill him and all he could do was keep puffing up.
 
Blimey

Blimey

.450/400 Nitro Ex
Messages
11,274
Reaction score
16,250
Location
Western NY
Mosinitis said:
He played a game of chicken and he lost. Tough shit. Don't threaten people who are armed. They are not going to be convicted in TX.
The video doesn't show what he was doing at a point when shots were fired, but the sound and reaction indicates he took this a step further then yelling and threatening.
Click to expand...
They may be convicted or not, it really does depend on what forensics determines about what weapons were around/used, etc.

I personally think stand your ground is a stupid law. It invites too much stupidity and then you get videos like this, and regardless of the law, just being a basic person with a brain you would, if you were either party, detach. This killing happened only because both sides were more than happy to be morons.
 
Mosinitis

Mosinitis

.338 Win Mag
Messages
8,470
Reaction score
7,873
Location
NY state
Blimey said:
They may be convicted or not, it really does depend on what forensics determines about what weapons were around/used, etc.

I personally think stand your ground is a stupid law. It invites too much stupidity and then you get videos like this, and regardless of the law, just being a basic person with a brain you would, if you were either party, detach. This killing happened only because both sides were more than happy to be morons.
Click to expand...

I didn't see it that way.
 
Yeti

Yeti

.45 acp
Messages
265
Reaction score
164
Location
NY
GOPerfect said:
Looked like a hunk of 2x4 was thrown at him
Click to expand...

Yep looks like he might of picked up a board to use to attack them,then shot it at them when the shots started.Guy let his anger get him self killed.
 
Doc8404

Doc8404

.450/400 Nitro Ex
Messages
13,645
Reaction score
24,308
Location
Oneida County NY
And the more I think about it....once the guy threw the wood, he was no longer an active threat IMHO.

If he went swinging, open up!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top