The US healthcare system sucks. Why are we still supporting it?

[Blimey]

The more exposure I have to the healthcare system in the US the more disgusted I am by it. I just spent two hours this morning on the phone trying to figure out why I'm spending hundreds/month on prescriptions when a deductible (another scam) has already been hit. It turns out that one drug hit a limit, so my shitty drug provider only covers it partially, and it turns out another drug isn't covered at all, so I pay all of it. I work at a major company with "good" insurance, but it still sucks.

For a few years now I've been maxing out my HSA. That means that in addition to the ~$20k my company and I pay for healthcare premiums I'm also putting another $7k/year into this HSA. Yet, it's still in the negative because of deductibles, copays, drugs. And are we even dealing with a major, weird medical issue? No! Imagine if we had some long term illness or cancer to deal with?

My personal belief is that the prevalence of private insurance in the USA is one of the greatest if not the greatest disinformation campaigns in the nation's history.

Why do we still support it? We all know it sucks. This has become a political wedge issue like everything else, but I really hope more can open their eyes to what a pile of shit this system is.

Satisfaction levels are poor. Quality of the system is pretty middle of the road, but it's not affordable.

Healthcare System Ratings: U.S., Great Britain, Canada

The healthcare systems in the United States, Canada, and Great Britain provide interesting comparisons to one another, especially since the U.S. system is considered private and Canada and Great Britain each have national health systems that supply universal coverage.

news.gallup.com

Overall ranking by other western nations is last:

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally

The United States ranks last overall among 11 industrialized countries on measures of health system quality, efficiency, access to care, equity, and healthy lives, according to this Commonwealth Fund report, despite spending far more of its GDP on health.

www.commonwealthfund.org

We also have higher infant mortality ratings than the rest of the west, and terrible life expectancy as well:

https://www.americashealthrankings.org/learn/reports/2016-annual-report/comparison-with-other-nations

I once got a prescription for an MRI and got it same day, whereas I know in Canada it would have been a 6+ month wait. I thought that was cool, but that's an anecdotal scenario. The fact is overall Americans pay more for health coverage, with worse outcomes.

 

[spat]

The more exposure I have to the healthcare system in the US the more disgusted I am by it. I just spent two hours this morning on the phone trying to figure out why I'm spending hundreds/month on prescriptions when a deductible (another scam) has already been hit. It turns out that one drug hit a limit, so my shitty drug provider only covers it partially, and it turns out another drug isn't covered at all, so I pay all of it. I work at a major company with "good" insurance, but it still sucks.

For a few years now I've been maxing out my HSA. That means that in addition to the ~$20k my company and I pay for healthcare premiums I'm also putting another $7k/year into this HSA. Yet, it's still in the negative because of deductibles, copays, drugs. And are we even dealing with a major, weird medical issue? No! Imagine if we had some long term illness or cancer to deal with?

My personal belief is that the prevalence of private insurance in the USA is one of the greatest if not the greatest disinformation campaigns in the nation's history.

Why do we still support it? We all know it sucks. This has become a political wedge issue like everything else, but I really hope more can open their eyes to what a pile of shit this system is.

Satisfaction levels are poor. Quality of the system is pretty middle of the road, but it's not affordable.

Healthcare System Ratings: U.S., Great Britain, Canada

The healthcare systems in the United States, Canada, and Great Britain provide interesting comparisons to one another, especially since the U.S. system is considered private and Canada and Great Britain each have national health systems that supply universal coverage.

news.gallup.com

Overall ranking by other western nations is last:

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally

The United States ranks last overall among 11 industrialized countries on measures of health system quality, efficiency, access to care, equity, and healthy lives, according to this Commonwealth Fund report, despite spending far more of its GDP on health.

www.commonwealthfund.org

We also have higher infant mortality ratings than the rest of the west, and terrible life expectancy as well:

https://www.americashealthrankings.org/learn/reports/2016-annual-report/comparison-with-other-nations

I once got a prescription for an MRI and got it same day, whereas I know in Canada it would have been a 6+ month wait. I thought that was cool, but that's an anecdotal scenario. The fact is overall Americans pay more for health coverage, with worse outcomes.

Americans have "worse outcomes" because Americans are less healthy.

When you have rampant obesity and other ailments that are caused by poor lifestyle you're going to get that.


Everyone seems to want to blame the insurance companies. But they aren't the ones charging the outrageous money for your drugs. That's the hospitals and pharmacies.

Eliminating the insurance companies won't change the prices.

You need to ask *why* is a hospital charging me $10/pill for an aspirin. If you think the insurance company is overcharging you for their service, wait till you replace them with government.

 

[SonOfSun]

If you think the insurance company is overcharging you for their service, wait till you replace them with government.

That's not really a valid argument. Places like Canada and Denmark have govt. provided national health insurance. It's cheaper than our private insurance. If govt. insurance is more expensive, why is their insurance cheaper?

 

[spat]

That's not really a valid argument. Places like Canada and Denmark have govt. provided national health insurance. It's cheaper than our private insurance. If govt. insurance is more expensive, why is their insurance cheaper?

What makes you think American government run health care would be anything like Canadian government run health care ?

If you want to see how the American government would run health care, look at the VA.

 

[GOPerfect]

That's not really a valid argument. Places like Canada and Denmark have govt. provided national health insurance. It's cheaper than our private insurance. If govt. insurance is more expensive, why is their insurance cheaper?

The Danes pay wayyyyyyy more than we do for their Medical.

 

[GOPerfect]

I believe the biggest drain are all the poors that get healthcare for free.

As for the HC thing, not a shot at anyone here or elsewhere....

Get fit, stay fit. Eat healthy, get fit and stay fit.

So many of our health conditions are self inflicted issues.

I may not be the healthiest, but I try. I watch what I eat, I maintain a healthy weight and I go to my doctor once every two years for a quick check up.

I cannot count on the Healthcare system to keep me healthy, I do that on my own.

 

[Phazer]

We also have higher infant mortality ratings than the rest of the west, and terrible life expectancy as well:

https://www.americashealthrankings.org/learn/reports/2016-annual-report/comparison-with-other-nations

I immediately discount any study that compares "infant mortality rates." The problem is that there is no accepted standard throughout the world as to just what an "infant" is. In many countries, if a baby does not weigh a specific amount or is born before a certain gestational age, their death does not count as "infant mortality" but rather as a miscarriage.

In the United States, every child born alive counts as a child. Thus, any premature baby that dies, regardless of how premature they are born, counts as an infant death. That is absolutely not the case in much of the world.

As a student, one of my obstetrics instructors told a story of when he attended a European conference on handling premature infants. He told one of his European counterparts that he was seeing so many problems with babies born before 25 weeks gestational age. He asked how the European doctor handled those cases. The response, "What? Those are miscarriages, not births."

 

[Phazer]

What makes you think American government run health care would be anything like Canadian government run health care ?

If you want to see how the American government would run health care, look at the VA.

100% government-run health care would get you all of the efficiency of the postal service and all of the compassion of the IRS.

 

[Dr. Evil]

100% government-run health care would get you all of the efficiency of the postal service and all of the compassion of the IRS.

Plus, they have the ability to take it away from anyone who doesn't play by their rules.

 

[Stuckinny]

I believe there is a way forward for universal health care, but the US would never be able to do it. It would become a political tool to garner votes just like everything else has. Special interests would require 90 different tiers of service. We would never be able to fund it using am evil tax such as sales tax like Canada does. Then, any public employee would still demand a private plan because they would be too good for a public plan, which means we would be paying for 2 health insurance plans for all them out of our taxes. Overuse would not be addressed which is a major issue in other state run systems. I personally want a state run plan so I can quit my full time job, but it will never happen.

 

[GOPerfect]

I believe there is a way forward for universal health care, but the US would never be able to do it. It would become a political tool to garner votes just like everything else has. Special interests would require 90 different tiers of service. We would never be able to fund it using am evil tax such as sales tax like Canada does. Then, any public employee would still demand a private plan because they would be too good for a public plan, which means we would be paying for 2 health insurance plans for all them out of our taxes. Overuse would not be addressed which is a major issue in other state run systems. I personally want a state run plan so I can quit my full time job, but it will never happen.

Cannot work in the US due to the amount of scum that expect everything for free.

In Scandinavia, it is a decent system because 98% of the people pay into the system.

Look around at the lazy, good for nothing, shit bags in the US. Give, give and more give.

Decrease the population by a few groups and this may work.

This is a pipe dream, the haves CANNOT continue to feed, house, cloth and give medical care also to the have nots

If it were just the good paying people to get universal, it may work. Pipe dream for sure!

 

[libertysnake]

Plus, they have the ability to take it away from anyone who doesn't play by their rules.

This is my concern with centralization of anything, really, is that it becomes weaponized.

The fed takes most of your taxes and weaponizes it against the states. Think about that.

I'm not sure what the answer is here, healthcare wise, but I agree there is a ton of abuse. Maybe if we worked on more targeted crackdowns on abuse we'd reduce costs is my guess. Bloat, basically, that has run out of control.

 

[Phazer]

Cannot work in the US due to the amount of scum that expect everything for free.

Look around at the lazy, good for nothing, shit bags in the US. Give, give and more give.

This is a pipe dream, the haves CANNOT continue to feed, house, cloth and give medical care also to the have nots

BINGO!

As I tell my kids: We have an obligation as a good, decent, nation of citizens to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves. We owe nothing to those who are able-bodied and do not want to take care of themselves.

 

[meketrefe]

Yes. Lets move to Kazakistan!

 

[Stuckinny]

Cannot work in the US due to the amount of scum that expect everything for free.

In Scandinavia, it is a decent system because 98% of the people pay into the system.

Look around at the lazy, good for nothing, shit bags in the US. Give, give and more give.

Basically, yes. Most countries that have this levy a tax on all citizens. And you must be a citizen to use it. Canada bills back to your private insurance if you are an American citizen and use their system. They bill you if you do not have insurance. In the US it would need to be funded from income tax, capital gains tax, property tax, basically anything that would insure some people get free health care, others pay the bill. Co-pays, ha, it would be racist, ageist, sexist, and many other ists. Here in NY we have a universal option, available to some. Those who use it pay very little, those who don't foot the majority of the bill. Expand that country wide, throw in illegals for free, that is what we would have.

 

[diggs223]

Biden will fix it , Orange man bad

 

[TEOTWAWKI inc.]

In/out of network, and open enrollment should go away. My son has a doctor with an office 10 minutes from my house that is out of network, but can go to the same doctors other office in Westchester, and be in network. 3 hours of driving, but $$$$$ less.

 

[GOPerfect]

In/out of network, and open enrollment should go away. My son has a doctor with an office 10 minutes from my house that is out of network, but can go to the same doctors other office in Westchester, and be in network. 3 hours of driving, but $$$$$ less.

These are the little rules and regulations that I hate.

Things like this should be very easy to alter and end.

 

[TEOTWAWKI inc.]

These are the little rules and regulations that I hate.

Things like this should be very easy to alter and end.

This is just one example. The whole system is designed like this though.

McDonalds could develop a better healthcare system.

 

[GOPerfect]

This is just one example. The whole system is designed like this though.

McDonalds could develop a better healthcare system.

I know many would like universal HC. Not me though.

Through negotiations, I have an amazing plan. Mine should not be equal to others, that have not fought long and hard for this plan.

My plan is part of my overall package. If we were to go with an equal to all plan, my overall package would need to altered so as I do not lose out.

Those that do not work and do not provide like others, should have very basic coverage.

 

[TEOTWAWKI inc.]

I know many would like universal HC. Not me though.

Through negotiations, I have an amazing plan. Mine should not be equal to others, that have not fought long and hard for this plan.

My plan is part of my overall package. If we were to go with an equal to all plan, my overall package would need to altered so as I do not lose out.

Those that do not work and do not provide like others, should have very basic coverage.

My employer is huge, so I don't think there is any custom tailored coverage option for me. I chose the tier that is best suited for my family. It is kind of like trim levels on a new car though - you get a bunch of stuff you don't want to get an option you need. Total salary + benefits is really good, and I work my GD ass off to keep it.

 

[spat]

My employer is huge, so I don't think there is any custom tailored coverage option for me. I chose the tier that is best suited for my family. It is kind of like trim levels on a new car though - you get a bunch of stuff you don't want to get an option you need. Total salary + benefits is really good, and I work my GD ass off to keep it.

The problem is that your health insurance is tied to your employer at all.

The reasons why are a case study in bureaucratic stupidity, but the fact remains, you pay for lots of different types of insurance, but only health insurance goes through your employer.

If you don't do your car insurance and homeowners insurance through your employer, why do they do your health insurance ?

If that went away, and people bought policies themselves like they do with other types of insurance a lot of the problems would go away.

The rest would be solved if society got back to letting people fail.

 

[Cooolone]

While not unaware that the Healthcare Industrial Complex in the U.S. is an issue, along with the highly lobbied and uncontrollable Insurance Industry...

There's a reason people come from all over the world to either receive medical care here, or become physicians! Insurance aside, we do have some of the very best care available, especially if you can pay for it! And the level of care definitely changes for those with the deepest pockets!

That all said, of recent experience that has my insurance spitting out hundreds of thousands of dollars, I would say my care, my experience in this regard, has been completely outstanding! Sure, there's been some issues here and there, but overall, it's been a simple and amazing journey. One in which I've immersed myself within, by wading in the deep end of the pool. Advocating for your own care and condition is a must, and the squeaky wheel gets the oil, but this is a given. Learning how to navigate and effectuate for your care is a requirement as if you just leave it to others, you could float in mediocrity for a long, long time! Doing your research and making sure you align yourself with the best facilities and the best doctors for your situation will always result in the best, well, results! Anyways... Maybe because my insurance covered, and has covered "everything" without a blip or hiccup along the way, it is possible that I've had this type of experience. Maybe... And I can see from the billing how atrocious it all is and for a person absent such coverage, that would be financially wrecked, if not destroyed. That in itself is wrong... But do we socialize health care and regulate ourselves to a clinic structure mentality like mentioned having inordinate delays for even the simplest care? Ehhhhh, I don't know...

We pay a lot here, and there's a lot of fixing needed to bring access of the top level care down for all to enjoy, but if you learn how to tiptoe through the mine field, you can do well.

Completely my opinion... And I reserve the ability to change my mind in the future! Lol

 

[Jezman]

It is supported because someone is profiting from it

 

[Truebeliever]

What makes you think American government run health care would be anything like Canadian government run health care ?

If you want to see how the American government would run health care, look at the VA.

The old VA system is the best comparison . Canadians come here for many of their procedures for a reason. There is a waiting list there for many procedures.

The cost here is so high for a few reasons. We pay for the rest of the world. Go see what someone in Africa or India pays for the same drug. Not even close. Hundreds of dollars less per pill in some cases.
A hospital stay costs so much because you are making up the losses from the deadbeats who don’t or can’t pay their bills.

Another reason is lack of competition. People who are sick cant


Another reason is even doctors don’t know how much it’s going to cost. It can be different for different patients depending on coverage. It’s negotiated prices via the insurance companies. But don’t think single payer systems will save that much. Medicare is the example I would cite.
But if you think the American system is really bad, then go get sick in Europe. They ration the healthcare to the point that they transport patients hundreds of miles for certain procedures that are common here , forcing the patient to be hundreds of miles from family and convalesce there .

Go get Cancer in some of these European countries with universal healthcare. See what happens. For one type of cancer, they only allow for two years of the cancer drug then the person is cut off from it as a cost savings measure. It’s one reason rich Europeans come here for treatment.
Some places can’t even get the cancer drugs through legal means in their country no matter how much money they have.
Imagine a black market for cancer drugs( not the pain killers). That’s how bad it is over there.

 

[Saltwater60]

I have Independent Health and I have nothing but wonderful things to say about them. My prescription drug co-pays are $7/$15/$30 and yet I regularly end up walking out the door paying $2-$5 for a prescription. I have no idea why and I do t question it.
My wife has had medical procedures done for removing suspected cancer spots on her bony and I pay the $20 co-pay that’s all. She may have some weird blood disorder now and she went to the GI. She discussed this with her GI since some of the symptoms overlap. She told him she tried to get into this hematology group and he told her there is like an 8 month wait. He said I’ll write the script for the blood test but it’s unusual so I’ll have to get approval. Independent Health called and just said we’re calling to verify it’s legitimate and not a scam because it’s usual a GI would order this. She said yep and they said ok we already approved it. She had an appointment a few days later.
I have other plans available to me that are cheaper yet I stay with IH because of the service and lack of problems I have e with them.

 

[Cooolone]

Yes, people just don't understand the economics involved! The cost of a 3 million dollar scanning machine, the cost to train someone to operate it and be proficient at operating it. The cost and training of the person reviewing it's product. The cost and training for the doctor it is sent to and the subsequent result or treatment from the diagnosis. Many times, all at the cutting edge of technology and or what's available to provide the very best care. Certainly not in third world or even other industrialized countries... It's a difficult problem to try and reach your head around. Universal health care can be done, but certainly not by dragging the bottom up to the top, it comes at the expense of lowering the top so it's reachable to the bottom. This means less innovation, less $ spent on trials and exploratory medicine, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I have issues with the industrialized medical complex here in the U.S., but I do understand part of the equation is providing cutting edge care that just isn't available elsewhere. Do hospitals deserve the ability to bankrupt someone requiring a life saving procedure or medicine? No, definitely NOT! But what's the fix? What's the answer? I agree that profiteering is wrong, see the Epi Pen and Insulin as examples, those executives who came up with the disgusting $$$ grab should be publicly drawn and quartered!!! There's a reason there's Patent Protections, this allows those companies time to recoup cost for R&D and the ability to make reasonable profit. Afterwards, market should dictate cost... But unilateral price fixing should be illegal, especially when the entire trade is complicit. For example the Insulin cost is increased unreasonably, but the doctors here won't write scripts for obtaining the insulin from international sources! Same for other drugs! A prescription is based upon medical necessity, not where it is being obtained from. Patients should be able to exploit a free market and this alone would provide the stimulus to control costs.

But ehhhh... Bottom line is, those who can pay, get to sit at the table! All others are outside with their noses pressed against the window looking in! Has been that way longer than they been chiseling history in stone! It's our nature...

 

[OwnTheRide]

Get fit, stay fit. Eat healthy, get fit and stay fit.

So many of our health conditions are self inflicted issues.

I started a workout regimen about eight months ago. The difference (improvement) it has made in things like muscle and joint soreness is incredible. Not to mention weight loss, muscle mass and tone improvements, etc. I just feel better all around.

 

[spat]

I wouldn't say anyone "supports" the US health care system.

Nearly everyone recognizes that it is a dumpster fire.

Many of us just realize that the alternatives being promoted are even worse.

My suggestion ? Restore the anti-trust laws to the medicine and insurance industries.

Get employers out of the general health insurance business.

Accept that not everyone is entitled to a private room and 5 star hotel treatment in a hospital, but everyone is responsible for the cost of their own treatment.

Aggressively apply the competitive pricing provisions of The Clayton Antitrust Act and the Robinson–Patman Act - Wikipedia act.

As usual, we don't need new laws, we just need the existing ones to be enforced.