WW2 was more western Europe. (At the start)
Tulsi Gabbard Weighs In On Ukraine
- Thread starter Mosinitis
- Start date
Neither one was rooted in Ukraine. This idiotic claim was used to justify NATO aggression against Yugoslavia.
I know where all these places are. Just saying that I agree, many world issues have come from this area. Maybe not a particular Country, the area in general.
Both World Wars originated in Europe, but if one is being more specific by saying it was in Ukraine. It's a false statement.
spat
.950 JDJ
Sure, just like covid came from Wuhan China, and SARS (the first one) came from Guangdong, China, and about a dozen other zoonotic flu like diseases have come from various parts of China.
But, yea, it wasn't specifically the same *part* of China, so we can assume the next one is just as likely to come from Norway, right ?
The factors that caused both world wars to spiral out of control exist predominantly in one region of the world. That region includes Ukraine.
spat
.950 JDJ
Nobody is saying the world wars started in Ukraine.
We are saying that Ukraine is in the same region that spawned both of them, and the same conditions that allowed them to suck in the whole planet still exist there.
Europe is not a region, it's a continent. None of two WW's was spawned in Ukraine.
Ima gonna start to split hairs a bit...
A Region: A large, usually continuous segment of a surface or space.
spat
.950 JDJ
Any contiguous area can be a region.
The northern hemisphere is a region. My back yard is a region. The Pacific ocean is a region.
The region containing the Ukraine and the origin of both world wars is fairly compact, and it has certain traits that are likely to cause large problems.
"Tornado alley" is a region, that is larger than the "world war factory", and likewise has traits that make it very dangerous.
So, Vietnam is in the same "REGION" as Portugal?
spat
.950 JDJ
They're both in the northern hemisphere, so yes.
Does it make sense to talk about that ? Well, it depends on the context.
If you're talking politics, then no. If you're talking astronomy, then maybe.
Are you just being argumentative or deliberately ignorant? Are you incapable of comprehending simple analogies? Tornado Ally - when taken as a region of the USA, is approximately the same size of the compact region containing the Eastern European countries - which spreads from the Czech's in the west, Ukraine to the east, Poland to the north, and Bulgaria to the south. Your statement is so inane as to be utterly pointless. Which is why I'm wondering why I'm even typing this since it's going to bounce off of a skull as thick as a Neanderthals.
Arogant ass talk doesn't substantiate utterly false statements. In his original statement, he said "this particular area". That's very specific.
spat
.950 JDJ
Yes, a particular area that includes Poland, Austria, Serbia, and the Ukraine and a few other countries with the same dangerous political constructs.
If we have WWIII it will most likely start there, not the Americas, or Africa, or Australia, or anywhere else.
You're trying to argue that Ukraine isn't part of this area, or region, when by definition it is.
We are defining the area in question to include Ukraine.
If I define an area that includes NY, NJ, and parts of PA, you can't claim PA isn't part of it.
spat
.950 JDJ
I could say the same for Poland.
That doesn't mean you don't don't pay attention when troops are massing on their border.
That doesn't mean you don't don't pay attention when troops are massing on their border.
You can't say the same for Poland, because WWII officially started on the Polish German border after dispute over Gdansk (Danzig). Port city claimed by both countries.
spat
.950 JDJ
Sounds an awful lot like the situation in Ukraine today.
Putin is not fundamentally evil the way Hitler was, but politically and militarily the situation is very similar.
That's why it seems so dangerous.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
I dont see how its similar to Germanys Europe. Russia has said for a long time that they will not allow a NATO country on thier border. Thast been thier policy since Ukraine gained independence. Thats the only reason Ukraine is not a member of NATO . Thats what happened to Georgia about 20 years ago. they were talking about joining NATO and Russians would have none of it.
For the US or NATO to say this is some kind of surprise is utter bullshit , They are pushing the Russians to the limit on purpose. I feel the US and NATO are going to back down at the last moment myself. they dont want a war with Russia and Russia doesn't want a war with NATO.
All Russia wants is a buffer state between Russia and NATO which is very ""doable"" And I think the US and NATO will agree to that.BUt they arnt going to agree to it if they think the Russians are bluffing. I believe the threat is real , the Russians will go into Ukraine if they dont get the deal they want. no doubt about it .
For the US or NATO to say this is some kind of surprise is utter bullshit , They are pushing the Russians to the limit on purpose. I feel the US and NATO are going to back down at the last moment myself. they dont want a war with Russia and Russia doesn't want a war with NATO.
All Russia wants is a buffer state between Russia and NATO which is very ""doable"" And I think the US and NATO will agree to that.BUt they arnt going to agree to it if they think the Russians are bluffing. I believe the threat is real , the Russians will go into Ukraine if they dont get the deal they want. no doubt about it .
Yea, it was that darned dispute over a city that prompted the invasion of Poland. Hitler was misunderstood. Got it.
spat
.950 JDJ
Well, he thinks Stalin was a hero, so that wouldn't surprise me either
spat
.950 JDJ
If Russia doesn't want NATO on their borders, then annexing Ukraine is one of the fastest ways to make it happen.
It would guarantee NATO on their border.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Not really. the border would be extended by several hundred miles.,Yes technically your right, but its not the same border anymore ,Russia increases its buffer zone also.
spat
.950 JDJ
If they annex Ukraine, then Russia will directly border Poland, Romania, Slovakia, and Hungary. They are all NATO members
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Thats right, and it would extend thier border by several hundred miles, similar to the cold war borders
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Russias fear is that the west would place hypersonic missiles on the Russian Ukrainian border, Kiev to Moscow is 525 miles, and Kiev is in the center of Ukraine, So the border would be roughly 250 350 miles from Moscow, Ball park, which Gives the Russians about 4 to 9 minutes before impact .
Thats why they are concerned. obviously extending the border out to 900 to 1200 miles would help so would an agreement not to put those missiles in Ukraine.
Thats why they are concerned. obviously extending the border out to 900 to 1200 miles would help so would an agreement not to put those missiles in Ukraine.
spat
.950 JDJ
Not sure what the point is.
We can already put plenty of SLBMs in the arctic ocean anytime we want.
They are 4 times as fast as a hypersonic missile (approx mach 24 in the terminal phase).
Also, I'm not all that sure what more you do with a 10 min notice of an all out nuclear attack than a 5 min one.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
The point is there is almost zero time to react. It poses a huge danger to Russia. BSLBM's launches are very noticeable and they have a very high trajectory which also makes them noticeable, they are no where near as fast in the launch phase. Global strike (supposedly) can hit any target on earth in less than an hour , speeds from mach 10-20+launched from 250 miles from the target , there is almost no warning before impact.
You dont have to be a supreme commander to see the threat here. If your trying to say there is nothing for Russia to worry about few hundred cruise missles 250 miles from Moscow Your flat out crazy.
You dont have to be a supreme commander to see the threat here. If your trying to say there is nothing for Russia to worry about few hundred cruise missles 250 miles from Moscow Your flat out crazy.
Dispute over control of Danzig was real. Polish attack on German radio station was faked. We all know about the scope Hitler's aggression, but it's impossible to talk about start of WWII without mentioning Poland. I can't believe I have to debate that WWII didn't start/originated/spawned/spilled from Ukraine. Feel free to continue your support of idiotic narrative.
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