Undocumented immigrant accused of shooting a gun says he has same Second Amendment rights as U.S. ci

[BDinPutnam]

Because other countries don't have the Bill of Rights. They only apply to this country.

Hence the Bill of Rights. These rights are inured to human beings by virtue of... us being human beings. Which in my opinion is why the first, and the second, are (partly) placed so front and center.

 

[Blimey]

There is some merit to his argument.

The constitution basically applies to anyone in the US. A tourist, for example, has protections of the first amendment.

Historically non-citizens or at least non permanent residents have had a hard time with the second amendment, but why the exception? In his case if he was here illegally and thus a criminal he may have screwed himself, but a legal immigrant fresh off the boat do they not have the right to bear arms and if not why?

 

[Blimey]

then why doesn't our 2A rights extend to other countries? If anyone can come to America and acquire a firearm, then why can't why can't we go to England and have the 2A protect us?

actually you do have a second amendment right in England AFAIK. The US constitution prohibits behavior by the US gov and so it will not change you for gun ownership in England or Japan or wherever. Of course it doesn’t protect you from those nations’ laws.

But you won’t find the US gov charging you for things you said in France which, if saidnin the USA, would be protected under first amendment.

 

[BDinPutnam]

That... took me a second, @Blimey.

Once you wrap your head around it, it follows.

The second amendment doesn't secure your right to keep and bear arms in Belize if you elect to migrate there.

Any more than the first secures your right to free speech if you move to North Korea.

 

[GOPerfect]

I am a huge fan of Constitutionalism.

Over the years, "We the People" has nearly destroyed the document.

This low life, illegal piece of crap; whatever, I do not, nor cannot care about him or his crimes.

 

[Dinkus the Stinkus]

He does. Whether you are an illegal alien, a legal citizen of another country on vacation, or a citizen of this country, you are afforded the protections of the US Constitution.

For example. A Catholic from Italy on vacation or on a student visa cannot be told that he cannot practice his religion here. That same guy from Italy cannot be told that he cannot do an interview with a news organization. If he rents a house for vacation or while on a visa, he cannot have US Soldiers forcibly quartered in his home.

Why is it different for guns and the 2A? It doesn't matter who you are. A citizen, a resident, a person on a visa, or an illegal alien has the same protections from the government. The US Constitution says what the government cannot do. It doesn't say who has rights.

It actually says the rights are unalienable and God given. So by that phrasing everyone has these rights. However our constitution is one of few that says the government cannot take them away.

 

[Acer-m14]

Not only that, but as the law states you can't discharge a firearm within 500 feet of a dwelling. I doubt there in any open space in Brooklyn without a dwelling within 50 feet of one another let alone 500 feet.

unless you have permission from all neighbors within that 500 feet ..

 

[SomeSoldier]

There is some merit to his argument.

The constitution basically applies to anyone in the US. A tourist, for example, has protections of the first amendment.

Historically non-citizens or at least non permanent residents have had a hard time with the second amendment, but why the exception? In his case if he was here illegally and thus a criminal he may have screwed himself, but a legal immigrant fresh off the boat do they not have the right to bear arms and if not why?

All of them, right to a speedy trial, right to not self inciminate, lawyer, proper treatment in custody.

 

[Phauxtoe]

no legal path to getting the gun
no legal path for discharging a gun into the air
no legal path for anything, JAIL and DEPORT

 

[Marine Cpl]

no legal path to getting the gun
no legal path for discharging a gun into the air
no legal path for anything, JAIL and DEPORT

There shouldn't have been any gun laws for him to break as far as the 2nd Amendment goes. The only charges he should have gotten were disorderly conduct, shooting within a certain distance from a dwelling, and illegal immigration. A gun charge shouldn't even exist. All gun possession charges are unconstitutional and a violation of the Bill of Rights but we have been conditioned to accept those infringements because some corrupt judge in a black dress said so.

 

[M_F]

There shouldn't have been any gun laws for him to break as far as the 2nd Amendment goes. The only charges he should have gotten were disorderly conduct, shooting within a certain distance from a dwelling, and illegal immigration. A gun charge shouldn't even exist. All gun possession charges are unconstitutional and a violation of the Bill of Rights.

Disorderly conduct is not even a crime in NY. It is a non criminal violation, the maximum jail time you can serve is 15 days. I do agree that CPW is an unconstitutional “crime” in NY and a few other commie states. But I would have charged the guy with reckless endangerment, every round fired into the air has to come down somewhere.

 

[Jmac00]

Because other countries don't have the Bill of Rights. They only apply to this country.

but the BoR applies to foreigners and illegal aliens just showing up/walking into America, ya, got it. So if a German has a CCW permit for Germany, America automatically recognizes his permit and he can legally carry in America.

great, now we have reciprocity with all Nations, but not within our own borders, Got it, Thanx for the heads up

 

[spat]

No voting? The application of the law shows how screwed things are.

but the BoR applies to foreigners and illegal aliens just showing up/walking into America, ya, got it. So if a German has a CCW permit for Germany, America automatically recognizes his permit and he can legally carry in America.

great, now we have reciprocity with all Nations, but not within our own borders, Got it, Thanx for the heads up

The bill of rights recognizes (not creates) inalienable rights that *all* people have from birth, no matter where they are from or where they are.

North Koreans have a RKBA and a right to free speech, etc, etc. It's just that their government infringes on those *natural* rights.

 

[Marine Cpl]

but the BoR applies to foreigners and illegal aliens just showing up/walking into America, ya, got it. So if a German has a CCW permit for Germany, America automatically recognizes his permit and he can legally carry in America.

great, now we have reciprocity with all Nations, but not within our own borders, Got it, Thanx for the heads up

I don't think you are tracking what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that in this country the government isn't supposed to infringe on arms. Period. No matter who's here as per the Constitution.

Other countries have their own laws that we and everyone else have to follow. They don't have a 2A like we do. Our 2A is supposed to stop gun laws from even existing but corrupt judges have allowed them to stand.

 

[BDinPutnam]

One nitpick, @Willjr75 - last sentence of your second paragraph.

"Visitors" are not "the people" for 2A purposes. Just my opinion.

 

[Saltwater60]

then why doesn't our 2A rights extend to other countries? If anyone can come to America and acquire a firearm, then why can't why can't we go to England and have the 2A protect us?

Because England doesn’t have a second amendment and ours says we then people not we the citizens. I think it has some merit honestly.

 

[Marine Cpl]

One nitpick, @Willjr75 - last sentence of your second paragraph.

"Visitors" are not "the people" for 2A purposes. Just my opinion.

I can see your point. "The people" as the people already here who live here whether citizens or allowed to be here by our government on a visa.

So with that said it becomes an issue of charges for those that aren't supposed to be here. Should those be gun laws? I don't think it's necessary just like it wouldn't be necessary to charge the illegal with 1st Amendment charges that don't affect us . The penalty for being caught here illegally should be harsh with jail time where gun charges or 1st Amendment charges wouldn't be necessary.

 

[M_F]

but the BoR applies to foreigners and illegal aliens just showing up/walking into America, ya, got it. So if a German has a CCW permit for Germany, America automatically recognizes his permit and he can legally carry in America.

great, now we have reciprocity with all Nations, but not within our own borders, Got it, Thanx for the heads up

LOL Speaking of foreign CCW My birth country of Peru has a “shall issue” licensing scheme for carrying concealed handguns, the downside is the caliber restriction up to 380 ACP/38 special. There is no 2A equivalent there but they do have a constitutional right to self defense. Imagine that, after jumping the right hoops I can lawfully carry a handgun for self protection in a third world country, but not in all 50 states here, like it is meant to be because of the 2A. Like Justice Thomas said, for some reason the 2 A is the least protected one in the bill of rights.

 

[Truebeliever]

Like I said, this was in Brooklyn and I will eat my own permit if this guy has a NYC pistol permit. Lack of a permit alone should convict this guy (even if, obviously, I despise the Sullivan Act).

This is the GREAT case we can dream about.

As an illegal alien, he can’t get the permit therefore it puts the permit system on notice. Liberals will be ripping themselves apart on this one. Which way to go on it-lol

 

[BDinPutnam]

This is the GREAT case we can dream about.

As an illegal alien, he can’t get the permit therefore it puts the permit system on notice. Liberals will be ripping themselves apart on this one. Which way to go on it-lol

Respectfully disagree. The "great case we can dream about" I hope never comes about and probably can't because you wind up with no one who has standing to sue.

Single mom moves to NYC fleeing abusive dickhead ex. Seeks a firearm permit.

Is subsequently killed by the aforementioned scumbag whilst waiting.

This happened in NJ.

N.J. gun association calls Berlin woman's death an 'absolute outrage'

There's no plaintiff to bring the suit because the plaintiff is fucking dead.

 

[Truebeliever]

Yes, but we had one in MA with stun guns. She lived.

If the illegal can’t get a permit, he is a good case for us if he wins. If he loses, it doesn’t effect US citizens. But the left is tying itself in knots over this. I love it

 

[Paxal]

Since the overwhelming argument here is that the Bill of Rights does not grant rights, it only guards them, and since, I think, we all hold that the right to keep and bear arms is inexoribly tied to the right to self-defense, then, I would have to say that this guy has the right to keep and bear arms. You can’t have it both ways, either the right to self-defense is a universal, natural right, or it isn’t. Take you pick. If you want to bust the guy for something, bust him for being a gang member engaged in act of mayhem, or whatever. Leave 2A out of it.

 

[Bigfoot]

@Willjr75 I noticed years ago that you are a smart man.
This isn't the first time that I have learned from you.

You know your stuff that's for sure.