US and Iran conflict thread. ( merged threads)

[Mosinitis]

This needs to be reminded. Since 2014 and on, U.S. government supported armed neo-Nazi formations in Ukraine when they were killing civilians in Donbass. Can that be used as justification for Russia to bomb U.S.?

 

[Mosinitis]

George H. Bush refused to apologise for this incident reinforcing Iranian belief it was done on purpose.

Iran Air Flight 655[a] was an international scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by two surface-to-air missiles fired by USS Vincennes, a United States Navy warship. The missiles hit the Iran Air aircraft, an Airbus A300, while it was flying its usual route over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, shortly after the flight departed its stopover location, Bandar Abbas International Airport. All 290 people on board were killed, making it one of the deadliest airliner shootdowns of all time, the deadliest aviation incident involving an Airbus aircraft of any type, and the deadliest aviation incident in Iranian history.

 

[Bigfoot]

FWIW

 

[Bigfoot]

 

[Defilade]

Ahhh yes, The fake scripted news cycle brainwashing the masses strikes again..

"

 

[SonOfSun]

What a ridiculous comparison. A math test compared to the nuclear capability of an insane theocracy. Life must be simple in your world as well.

Eh? The approach of, "they got this wrong so that means they got that wrong too", is simple. Covert intelligence is anything but simple. It doesn't mean you can just discard everything else because not enough information was gathered about one item. Should extra emphasis be placed on it? Sure. But just knee jerk assuming? Nope.

 

[fresch]

The best part is where we keep believing, only the tip, I won't xxx in your mouth time after time.

 

[spat]

Eh? The approach of, "they got this wrong so that means they got that wrong too", is simple. Covert intelligence is anything but simple. It doesn't mean you can just discard everything else because not enough information was gathered about one item. Should extra emphasis be placed on it? Sure. But just knee jerk assuming? Nope.

Except that logic *does* follow when it comes to "how much are we missing".

"Our intelligence on Iran was so bad we didn't know about a missile that could reach London, what else don't we know" is a valid line of reasoning .

 

[SonOfSun]

Except that logic *does* follow when it comes to "how much are we missing".

"Our intelligence on Iran was so bad we didn't know about a missile that could reach London, what else don't we know" is a valid line of reasoning .

It's almost certain the inside information we were getting is from different sources. Ie. The inside moles providing information on missiles are different moles than the ones giving nuclear progress.

 

[Defilade]

I don't think it's anti American at all to question this.

I want to be America first/America only. I want what's good for America.

I fell hook line and sinker for GWOT, OIF, OEF, weapons of mass destruction, patriot act etc. I'm very skeptical of everything because we were all lied to for the sake of pushing an agenda.

Truth is the first casualty.

I don't want to get dragged into another war based on lies and half truths. If we are fighting we need to have the resolution and commitment to do it properly.

I am just struggling with the entire chain of events and making it make sense to me. That's no anti American to question if we are being told the truth. Here's an example,
Trump launched midnight fury.
Said nuclear program was destroyed
Said nuclear program was an immediate risk
Setup negotiations meetings with Iranian diplomats to discuss solutions, bombed the meeting.
Launched epic fury to wipe out an imminent nuclear threat that was already destroyed
Said it would be over in a couple weeks.
The straight of Hormuz is closed. Said it needs to be opened. Said we need help to open it. Said we don't need help will do it on our own.

Need 200Billion more for the war effort (but can't pay TSA agents and fix America)

No boots on the ground not ground troops..(but of course.....)


Nothing makes sense. I really worry Trump I had been co-opted by the shadow government and specifical interests (Israel) to do Israels bidding for them. Israel is the little loud mouth kid always picking a fight and when someone stands up to Israel they run and grab their big brother to do the dirty work for them to meet at the flagpole at 3.

We're constantly being told conflicting statements and half truths. I have a problem with that. How can I trust our government to do the right thing when they can't even honestly tell us what they are doing or why they are doing it.

And for the record I absolutely do not trust Iran. Not at all. They were full of bad people. This isn't some Iranian sympathizer post. Just questioning WTF is going on and why it's not anti patriotic to question and hold our government accountable.

I would have a stronger opinion one way or the other if I genuinely knew what irans nuclear situation was. What were they really trying to do. It's all hush hush and been swept to the side and we will probably never get the truth.

Truth is the first casualty.

^^^^^ This right here! Question everything just like @Bigfoot stated earlier.

 

[spat]

It's almost certain the inside information we were getting is from different sources. Ie. The inside moles providing information on missiles are different moles than the ones giving nuclear progress.

They seem to have some very senior sources, so it's quite likely it's above the level where that information is aggregated.

 

[tirwin1]

Eh? The approach of, "they got this wrong so that means they got that wrong too", is simple. Covert intelligence is anything but simple. It doesn't mean you can just discard everything else because not enough information was gathered about one item. Should extra emphasis be placed on it? Sure. But just knee jerk assuming? Nope.

This is incoherent at best.

 

[SonOfSun]

This is incoherent at best.

Is that you, Dan Quayle?

 

[SonOfSun]

They seem to have some very senior sources, so it's quite likely it's above the level where that information is aggregated.

Entirely possible that is the case. If so, then yeah they should absolutely downgrade the confidence of the intelligence, especially if they are the sole source. I'd still lean towards the lower chain though - It's typically easier to corrupt lower chain sources. That being said neither you or I know with certainty if a more senior level official(s) is the case. Maybe they have both.