Variance in case length of 45-70 Govt

[RooftopKorean]

According to Hornady's 10th edition the max case length on the cartridge is 2.105 but there is no mention of the minimum. Western Powders 7th Edition states the same with a Trim length of 2.095 and Lee's Die insert information card states Trim length of 2.105

When I was case prepping and checking length I noticed that the Hornady Leverevolution casings are all 2.043 and the Starline brass is 2.105. Why is there such a huge variance?

BTW the Starline brass is from LAX Ammo loads.

Is this normal or something I should be concerned about?

 

[Deplorable Me]

Hornady #7

 

[RooftopKorean]

I know I own the same book just different edition. The page looks the same.

 

[Deplorable Me]

The max case length is the hot concern.

You don't want the brass engaging the rifling.

Being a straight walked case they stretch more than bottle neck cases. I have to trim my .444 cases all the time.

As far as the 2.043" being a little under, in a straight wall, okay. Like shooting a .44 special in a .44 magnum chamber. .38 in a .357.

If you're shooting in an older .45/70 go a little light on the load. Trap doors have weaker actions. Marlin lever .45/70 strong action. Good for full strength loads. Be mindful of other load data specific to a series of rifles. Hornady has 3 specific. 45/70 load sub sections.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Can you shoot a pic of the Hornady #10 page? I'm surprised no minimum.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Two .45/70s and a .444. My .444 is ported, a fun shooter.

 

[RooftopKorean]

The max case length is the hot concern.

You don't want the brass engaging the rifling.

Being a straight walked case they stretch more than bottle neck cases. I have to trim my .444 cases all the time.

As far as the 2.043" being a little under, in a straight wall, okay. Like shooting a .44 special in a .44 magnum chamber. .38 in a .357.

If you're shooting in an older .45/70 go a little light on the load. Trap doors have weaker actions. Marlin lever .45/70 strong action. Good for full strength loads. Be mindful of other load data specific to a series of rifles. Hornady has 3 specific. 45/70 load sub sections.

I'm shooting an 1895G.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Big brother to my .444P.

 

[RooftopKorean]

 

[diggs223]

rimmed cases headspace off the rim, you would have to know actual chamber dimensions for what is "too long".
more important trim all the same for consistency, crimp the same every round if you crimp.

 

[Tisto]

The difference in case length is found in the Hornady cases, am I correct ? Those cases were loaded with FTX bullets. The FTX bullet has an ogive (curve) that necessetates it be seated deep. To accomodate the deep searing, the case itself had to be shortened. THOSE CASES SHOULD ONLY BE RELOADED WITH FTX BULLETS. loading them as you would a standard length case could be extremely dangerous. ( like reloading a .38 special case with .357 Magnum data ) If you are not going to load with FTX bullets, discard those cases. If you are using FTX bullets, all other cases need to be trimmed. Case length for both the 250gr Monoflex and the 325 gr FTX is listed as 2.040".

 

[RooftopKorean]

Oh shit, thanks a ton.

I didn't even notice that the projectiles showed case length in the Hornady book. I would have royally fucked myself had I not posed the question.

 

[RooftopKorean]

Separated my Hornady 45-70 brass from the rest this morning and pumped out some rounds.



Lost a few casings due to the bullet seating die being screwed down too far. It caused the casings to crinkling when I seated the bullet. Thank God I purchased a bullet puller.

 

[Tisto]

Hope you put a crimp on those bullets. The heavy recoil of a .45-70 will cause rounds in the magazine tube of your lever gun to push the bullets deep into the case. Deep seating causes extreme pressures. Always crimp the bullet for any tube fed gun.

 

[RooftopKorean]

My die set didn't come with a crimp die. Thanks for the heads up, I'll check Lee's website for one.

 

[Tisto]

My die set didn't come with a crimp die. Thanks for the heads up, I'll check Lee's website for one.

The crimp is built into your seating die. Read the destruction pamphlet that came with the dies.

 

[RooftopKorean]

Oh, so I guess I'll just take out the decapping pin and crimp with it I guess. I thought that put more of a roll on it than an actual crimp.

 

[Tisto]

No. The seating die has the crimp built into it. Not the size die - that's the one with the depriming stem. Back out the seating plug and crank down the die body until you feel it contact the shell at the top of the stroke. Then crank it down another 1/6 of a turn to put a roll crimp on the end of the shell. Cranking it down too far will crush the shell.

What brand of dies are you using ? Does it happen to say roll crimp or taper crimp on the box ?

 

[RooftopKorean]

No. The seating die has the crimp built into it. Not the size die - that's the one with the depriming stem. Back out the seating plug and crank down the die body until you feel it contact the shell at the top of the stroke. Then crank it down another 1/6 of a turn to put a roll crimp on the end of the shell. Cranking it down too far will crush the shell.

What brand of dies are you using ? Does it happen to say roll crimp or taper crimp on the box ?

Lee... Are you speaking of this die?

 

[Tisto]

Sorry, I can't tell what's what from the picture. Please describe the dies as they are in progression on your press. Are they like this ?

1: size & deprime die
2: expander with powder drop ability
3: seat with crimp

 

[RooftopKorean]

#1 empty
#2 Expander die with powder drop ability
#3 Long charging die w/ Auto Drum Powder Measure
#4 Seating die
#5 empty

Ignore the binder clips the beaded wire kept slipping when I was powder charging sometimes. It was throwing off my drop so I use the binder clips to prevent it from slipping. And ignore the labels I made to tell me which direction to turn the auto drum key, I'm still learning.

 

[Tisto]

Ok, so the searing die in position 4 is what you need to play with. Most of my dies are Redding or RCBS. However, I happen to have one set of Lee pistol dies.

 

[Tisto]

Where are you located ?

 

[RooftopKorean]

Where are you located ?

Confines of the five boroughs of retard central...aka NYC.

 

[Tisto]

Ok, then stopping by to help you get going isn't gonna happen !

 

[RooftopKorean]

Ok, then stopping by to help you get going isn't gonna happen !

Haha thank you for the offer though!

So if I'm reading my insert correctly, I can push the projectile deeper in if I do this wrong?

 

[Tisto]

Yes. First, back the seater plug out a few turns. You already have the bullets seated to the proper depth, correct ? Then, loosen the lock ring on the seater doe body and screw it in until you feel it touch the shell when the shell os at the top of the stroke. Then you can screw it in a tiny bit at a time until you get a suitable crimp. Lock the ring down there. Then, with the shell at a the top of the stroke, screw the seater plug in until it touches the bullet. You may have to play with both settings a bit to get them both where you want them.

The bullets you are using have a cannelure on them, right ? That's the little ring around the middle where the shell crimps them

 

[RooftopKorean]

I believe so.

 

[Tisto]

Yeah, that's good. You may have to seat them just a tiny bit deeper. The shell will need to cover almost half of that ring so that a roll crimp may be implemented.

 

[Tisto]

These destructions are from RCBS, but the principle is the same.