Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I wonder if this would get someone jammed up as it isn’t the specific verbiage for NY
wants.
concealed is concealed.
wants.concealed is concealed.
Walmart gun sign
- Thread starter Doc8404
- Start date
What does the law say?
CaliberPlus
.45 acp
I wonder if that is in a round about way saying "concealed carry" is acceptable. The is how I would interpert that.
2WheelGnnr
6.5 Creedmoor
Id like to think so.......as by saying please dont OPENLY carry...... its like a backwards yes to conceal carry ok.......just dont open carry and make our customers nervous......Kinda like you have to check yourself out now these days..you have to be security while in there too!!!! LOL
Vague enough for any LEO to arrest you and not get jammed up for doing so and vague enough to be charged, but a good attorney might beat it.
This document appears to be instruction for judges to rule on this law - Criminal Possession of a Weapon in a Restricted Location
https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/265/265-01-d.pdf
It states:
In order for you to find the defendant guilty of this crime, the People are required to prove, from all the evidence in the case, beyond a reasonable doubt, each of the following four elements:
1. That on or about (date) , in the County of (County), the defendant, (defendant's name)9 possessed a (specify: firearm, rifle, or shotgun);
2. That the defendant did so knowingly;
3. That the (specify) was operable; and
4. That the defendant entered into or remained on or in private property where such person knew or reasonably should have known that the owner or lessee of such property has not permitted such possession by clear and conspicuous signage indicating that the carrying of (specify) on their property is permitted or has otherwise given express consent.
If you find the People have proven beyond a reasonable doubt each of those elements, you must find the defendant guilty of this crime.
If you find the People have not proven beyond a reasonable doubt any one or more of those elements, you must find the defendant not guilty of this crime.
I think it would be critical to maintain that your read of the permission to carry concealed was clear to you. And of course, lawyer up.
CCIA did not standardize "signage" requirements and also seems to allow for verbal consent. There's enough ambiguity there for a good lawyer to work with. Ambiguity in law tends to favor the party that did not draft the law or contract.
This document appears to be instruction for judges to rule on this law - Criminal Possession of a Weapon in a Restricted Location
https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/265/265-01-d.pdf
It states:
In order for you to find the defendant guilty of this crime, the People are required to prove, from all the evidence in the case, beyond a reasonable doubt, each of the following four elements:
1. That on or about (date) , in the County of (County), the defendant, (defendant's name)9 possessed a (specify: firearm, rifle, or shotgun);
2. That the defendant did so knowingly;
3. That the (specify) was operable; and
4. That the defendant entered into or remained on or in private property where such person knew or reasonably should have known that the owner or lessee of such property has not permitted such possession by clear and conspicuous signage indicating that the carrying of (specify) on their property is permitted or has otherwise given express consent.
If you find the People have proven beyond a reasonable doubt each of those elements, you must find the defendant guilty of this crime.
If you find the People have not proven beyond a reasonable doubt any one or more of those elements, you must find the defendant not guilty of this crime.
I think it would be critical to maintain that your read of the permission to carry concealed was clear to you. And of course, lawyer up.
CCIA did not standardize "signage" requirements and also seems to allow for verbal consent. There's enough ambiguity there for a good lawyer to work with. Ambiguity in law tends to favor the party that did not draft the law or contract.
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Russ Woody
.357 mag
My wife and I just conceal carry. Can't open carry in NY anyway.
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
McMillon to Associates: Our Next Steps in Response to the Tragedies in El Paso and Southaven
Dear Associates, A month ago, in El Paso, Texas, a gunman with an assault-style rifle launched a hate-filled attack in our store, shooting 48 people resulting in the loss of 22 innocent lives. Just a few days prior, two of our associates were killed by another associate in our store in...
corporate.walmart.com
A month ago, in El Paso, Texas, a gunman with an assault-style rifle launched a hate-filled attack in our store, shooting 48 people resulting in the loss of 22 innocent lives. Just a few days prior, two of our associates were killed by another associate in our store in Southaven, Mississippi. And hours after the shooting in El Paso, our country experienced another mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio. This weekend brought tragedy to Midland and Odessa, Texas.
As it relates to safety in our stores, there have been multiple incidents since El Paso where individuals attempting to make a statement and test our response have entered our stores carrying weapons in a way that frightened or concerned our associates and customers. We have also had well-intentioned customers acting lawfully that have inadvertently caused a store to be evacuated and local law enforcement to be called to respond. These incidents are concerning and we would like to avoid them, so we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer openly carry firearms into our stores or Sam’s Clubs in states where “open carry” is permitted – unless they are authorized law enforcement officers.
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
Is It Legal? Walking into Wal-Mart with an Assault Rifle
Last night a man walked into Walmart in Springfield with a tactical vest, 100 rounds of ammunition and an assault rifle. Depending on the facts it was all likely more legal than most people think.In Missouri, an individual has the right under the Missouri Constitution and statutory authority to open carry and conceal carry. There are no limits on the types of legal firearms that can be carried. In other words, a person may carry a concealed pistol or openly carry an assault rifle without a permit or license. That’s Missouri law.
Is It Legal? Walking into Wal-Mart with an Assault Rifle - Twibell Pierson Criminal Law
Last night a man walked into Walmart in Springfield with a tactical vest, 100 rounds of ammunition and an assault rifle. Depending on the facts it was all likely more legal than most people think. In Missouri, an individual has the right under the Missouri Constitution and statutory authority...
twibellpierson.com
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
IMO this is expressed permission to carry a gun at Walmart just they prefer if you don’t open carry it.
Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
good luck finding it.
They NYSP simply refer to Penal Law §265.01
and that doesn't include what we are talking about.
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
"Kindly refrain" isn't exactly threatening lol.
byron
.308 Win
Walmart Gun Policy
As it stands, Walmart allows the concealed carry of weapons at their stores in accordance with state laws. This means that as long as you are acting in accordance with the laws of your state, you can conceal carry a weapon while shopping at Walmart.However, even in states that allow open carry, Walmart shoppers are not allowed to open carry firearms at Walmart under any circumstances.
Meh, they won't know either way.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
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spat
.700 Nitro Express
Care to post the section of NYS law that outlaws open carry ?
spat
.700 Nitro Express
So, NYS refers to PL 265.01
PL265.01 doesn't explicitly prohibit it.
That means it's legal.
That's how the law works, everything that isn't explicitly prohibited is allowed.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
new ruling from the Scouts ..
open carry is free speech ..
open carry is free speech ..
Lol open carry in Walmart happens everyday in NC, LA and PA. Never seen anyone asked to leave.
Walmart likes to make up their own "gun laws" without any regard to actual law.
Won't sell pistol ammo, yet sell .22.
Won't sell 5.56 or .223 yet sell .308, 30-06, etc.
Claim there are blackpowder guns that require "going through the computer" and others that "only need to be put in the book" (the same book they are using for the ammo 'requirements' of NYS).
But the above signage is similar enough to what I posted about the Victor Mall. Implied consent.
Won't sell pistol ammo, yet sell .22.
Won't sell 5.56 or .223 yet sell .308, 30-06, etc.
Claim there are blackpowder guns that require "going through the computer" and others that "only need to be put in the book" (the same book they are using for the ammo 'requirements' of NYS).
But the above signage is similar enough to what I posted about the Victor Mall. Implied consent.
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
you guys keep thinking along the lines of NY. Lets assume THIS Walmart is in a Free state, Like Arizona, Utah, .....and 25 other free states.
It doesn't say "DON'T" open carry, its says "kindly refrain" which to me says, **some of our customers are punk-ass bitches, and we don't want to hear about it**
It doesn't say "DON'T" open carry, its says "kindly refrain" which to me says, **some of our customers are punk-ass bitches, and we don't want to hear about it**
When I lived in NC, I carried openly at Wally World a few times just to try it out, and I have seen others (not LEO's) openly carrying there as well. Also have seen numerous others openly carrying in NC at other times and places. Coming from New Yorkistan, I was surprised at how basically no one bats an eye here when they see other people openly carrying.
I now live in SC. Open Carry with a permit is allowed per handgunlaw.us, although I have not done it here. Matter of fact, I think I have yet to see anyone openly carrying in SC. I suspect that is because there are enough businesses and locations around that do have signs prohibiting carrying in their locations, and since No Gun signs in SC (and NC too) have the force of law. Funny that I haven't seen people open carrying in SC though, but I do in NC.
It is easier for me to conceal carry anyway. It is just a whole different attitude in the Carolinas than in New Yorkistan. Most recent example of that was when a DEC officer was called to put down a sick raccoon (distemper) in our immediate neighborhood where the houses are all next to each other on 100' lots. He told us it was 100% legal for us to have come out with handguns or long guns and dispatched the poor fellow, with no need to call his department. Hell, back in NY if you shot a rabid animal in your yard, neighbors would flip out, and the SWAT team would have been called out!
Like I said, - a whole different world down here.
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CaliberPlus
.45 acp
WalMart likes to "require" a birth certificate to prove a middle name. Apparently they cannot actually read the 4473's directions....
There is a line of bp guns that need a nics, Traditions Nitro Fire. The box and the firearm have about ten notices that a 4473 is required. Hmm, I would like to know where it is written that bp need to be logged in the ammunition book.
2WheelGnnr
6.5 Creedmoor
since with the new laws about having to post if you CAN CCW in their store...the only one Ive ever seen so far in my limited travels in Rochester area is Tractor supply .......... Only ccw welcome sign ive seen.....or noticed...so far.
Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
spat
.700 Nitro Express
They have those same signs on the door out here too. Pretty sure they are from corporate and nationwide.
Open carry isn't all that common though.
I can't see anyone at Walmart saying anything though, or any of the other customers caring.
The wording of the sign is a sort of "please, don't rile up the sheeple" not a firm prohibition.
It has all the force of a sports bar with a sign that says "please no discussing politics"
1075tech
.338 Win Mag
As @VietnamEraVet said, here in NC, open carry is permitted without a permit. Walmart here has the same sign. I've seen several open carry in the store. No one says anything or even cares.
Only certain signs that prohibit weapons actually meet the letter of the law and they are enforceable. If the sign isn't to standard, it's not enforceable
Only certain signs that prohibit weapons actually meet the letter of the law and they are enforceable. If the sign isn't to standard, it's not enforceable
I see a lot of talk for something that has explicit instructions!
As a matter of fact, the ONLY Right noted with such!
"Shall Not Be Infringed"
And in some warped twisted and demented meeting room, some politicians believe it would be just fine to enact a law which assigned the ability to exercise my Right to business owners...
Hmmmm, again, "Shall Not Be Infringed"...
Takes precedence over some commercial enterprises sensitivities, or that of the politicians too.
So fuck them, thank you?
Fuck them and their mental midget world of ever increasing the hurdles and burdens a citizen must endure and surpass in order to exercise their 2A Right!
It's all fucking Bullshit!
Again, like the fucking ridiculous Safe Act, almost completely non-complied with, this law, this garbage, beckens all to just simply ignore it.
It, if ever challenged, will never see the inside of a court room, ever!
So why the fuck is anyone even thinking about it..
Concealed is concealed... You need to open carry to go to Walmart, well fuck, stop by your mental health care giver before you do and do us all a favor! Otherwise, keep the bad guys guessing, and save your parading for the Capitol... But ultimately if that's what's floats your boat, fuck it, have a great day! But remember...
Fuck NY and all those POS empty suit Politicians here who could take their collective heads out of their asses with a drum full of grease!
Counting the days... Counting the days!
As a matter of fact, the ONLY Right noted with such!
"Shall Not Be Infringed"
And in some warped twisted and demented meeting room, some politicians believe it would be just fine to enact a law which assigned the ability to exercise my Right to business owners...
Hmmmm, again, "Shall Not Be Infringed"...
Takes precedence over some commercial enterprises sensitivities, or that of the politicians too.
So fuck them, thank you?
Fuck them and their mental midget world of ever increasing the hurdles and burdens a citizen must endure and surpass in order to exercise their 2A Right!
It's all fucking Bullshit!
Again, like the fucking ridiculous Safe Act, almost completely non-complied with, this law, this garbage, beckens all to just simply ignore it.
It, if ever challenged, will never see the inside of a court room, ever!
So why the fuck is anyone even thinking about it..
Concealed is concealed... You need to open carry to go to Walmart, well fuck, stop by your mental health care giver before you do and do us all a favor! Otherwise, keep the bad guys guessing, and save your parading for the Capitol... But ultimately if that's what's floats your boat, fuck it, have a great day! But remember...
Fuck NY and all those POS empty suit Politicians here who could take their collective heads out of their asses with a drum full of grease!
Counting the days... Counting the days!
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
and the pistol permit is only for concealed carry ..
so there for ..
no permit is needed to open carry ..
LOL .. but you know .. good luck getting away with that in NY ..
.. would make for a good court case i think ..
If a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound