another thing to consider In the statistics above is rifle vs pistol round. The rifle round will cause a little more damage to the body than pistol rounds normally do.
Why would a fixed mag be considered a range toy?
- Thread starter Jchrisls
- Start date
I believe I saw the mother daughter liquor store duo shooting breakdown on ASP. I was aware that the statistics were dated, but was unaware these are considered fudd lore. I also know well that a single shot rarely puts someone out of the fight, and that it usually takes several.
Yes, but I have also seen just recently (not sure how many times he was shot but was looking to see if I could add it) video of police shooting a gunman with their AR. Close range multiple times.
The guy didn't die right there he decided nope I won't play anymore, dropped his rifle, then after the cop told him to get on the ground he decided to get down..
Took until he was transported to the hospital before he expired... did he stop fighting yes, in a defensive situation for a non Leo with no backup would he have done the same??? Idk
I am not against fixed mags for HD, I would not advise only having one though. That is planning to fail. No matter how good you are loading the rifle through the port it is a single failure point which will take you out of the fight if you get it wrong by 1/16th inch. The fixed mag is a great back up or even 3rd, 4th, 5th gun To grab in the fight.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
you can convince yourself I am ok with this or you can question why nobody who needs a critical duty firearm
would ever have something like this? for example an officer with a patrol rifle.
Because it is a horrible idea. That is why.
would ever have something like this? for example an officer with a patrol rifle.
Because it is a horrible idea. That is why.
Yeah multiple factors. You can be mortally wounded and still continue to fight until your brain runs out of blood.
Most self defense encounters are over with 3-7 rounds......but many are not.
If there are 3 guys shooting at me, I dont want those extra seconds added.
2 seconds to reload X 3 reloads is 6 seconds.
Thats an eternity when being shot at.
If there are 3 guys shooting at me, I dont want those extra seconds added.
2 seconds to reload X 3 reloads is 6 seconds.
Thats an eternity when being shot at.
This was the Walmart distribution center shooting. He was shot MANY times, at close range, with an AR15, dropped his rifle, stood there for a few minutes, then dropped.
And this is why the 3-5 average saying (with no one even providing the study that gave those numbers) is fudd lore and imho dangerous to keep telling new and ignorant (for lack of better terms) tun owners.
It gives people a false sense of security.. oh i only need a 7 round glock 43 because... or we can't have 30 round magazines, that's ok 10 will get the job done with extras left over
By no measure am I completely ok with it.
Yup. Sadly I'm not 100% sure on the exact number of times he was hit so I couldn't say, and i would have factored that into the about 3 shootings i mentioned earlier..
And i can tell you it wouldn't lower the average number.. it would bring it up
Oh I'm well aware of it. He was hit by more than 1 officer, from more than 1 angle, from several rifles. And I wouldn't say ignorant, new is more appropriate.
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
Not one to tell anyone whats better or worse for their personal situation, but me personally, id much rather use the most popular weapon system in the western hemisphere as it was designed to be used for my family security.
Ignorant is still a correct term.. how many gun shop owners tell new gun owners they should buy a revolver because "you won't need more than 3-5 rounds".. thats Ignorance
Yes
From a gun shop owners perspective, that would be ignorant certainly, but I don't believe it's the same level of ignorance as a new owner. Similar to the dumb VS stupid argument.
And if I'm correct, I counted 17 rounds, which I believe was 9 rounds by the perpetrator and 8 by LEOS
New and ignorant.. as in both telling a new gun owner and an ignorant gun owner.
Or someone was told that as a new owner, and decided well someone said that and im not going to challenge that information by seeking out my own conclusions or data. So now that person has moved on past new gun owner and is now ignorant gun owner
Fair point. Some of us have challenged that data, but are still new and learning.
And those are not who I am calling ignorant, because by definition that wouldn't be ignorant
Thank you. If I've learned anything in the last few months about firearms it's that when you think you have learned enough, you haven't even begun to scratch the surface of what you absolutely need to know.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You need fine motor skills to operate those loaders and they have to be operated correctly in a gun fight. Not a good idea for that. The AR wasn’t designed to be operated via a loader in the ejection port.
You discounted malfunctions due to your errors. That right there says that it isn’t a good idea. During a firefight, your chances of committing errors go up drastically.
You discounted malfunctions due to your errors. That right there says that it isn’t a good idea. During a firefight, your chances of committing errors go up drastically.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
try this experiment ..
get a malfunction with a fixed mag .. now smack your thigh with a epi pen .. count to 10 and now fix your malfunction
you got 5 seconds to fix it ...
get a malfunction with a fixed mag .. now smack your thigh with a epi pen .. count to 10 and now fix your malfunction
you got 5 seconds to fix it ...
Vapor
.308 Win
If I'm ever in a gun fight I want:
All the ammo and all themags
All the guns
All my friends to be there with all the ammo and all the guns.
The idea of a non reloadable gun with very few options of remedial actions being taken is terrifying.
I'd rather go to battle with lever action .30-30.
All the ammo and all themags
All the guns
All my friends to be there with all the ammo and all the guns.
The idea of a non reloadable gun with very few options of remedial actions being taken is terrifying.
I'd rather go to battle with lever action .30-30.
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
Of all the years I've spent on this forum and the old one, guidance from @dsdmmat is always to be taken literally and seriously.. Not a lot of guys around here have more real world experience and first hand knowledge of combat tactics and logistics. Great resource, do yourself a favor and follow his advice.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
If you wan the 'range gun' perhaps fine. Personally I think it is a stupid idea specially with compliant options that are
capable of detaching the magazine as originally intended and w/o having any impact in function or accuracy.
spat
.950 JDJ
1986 FBI Miami shootout - Wikipedia
spat
.950 JDJ
I might end up having to use my fixed mag AR in a defense scenario, but it wouldn't be my first choice.
And I wouldn't be planning on reloading it, just discard when empty and grab the next gun.
My new SKS is also fixed mag, but it was designed for that. If I was using that I would be far more likely to reload rather than discard.
Neither of those are what I would grab from the safe when something goes bump in the night. In fact, neither of them is even loaded. Both are generally "range toys" right now.
A Paul Harrell short demonstration/ documentary of the shooting1986 FBI Miami shootout - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
1986 FBI Miami shootout - Wikipedia
I thought there was another study put out that came to the conclusion 3-5 rounds