Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
Yes because we’re pussies now and will only say don’t do this.
U.S. Warning Europe That Russia May Be Planning Ukraine Invasion
- Thread starter Blimey
- Start date
BerettaGuy
.308 Win
WW2 was a continuation of WWI which begat The "League of Nations which drew up the borders of the Arab Countries and Eastern Europe. But fear not!
Because we have learned that if you just don't talk about it, no one will be the wiser that we are even at war.
We can concentrate on the important shit like genderless bathrooms and fact-checking memes.
Those actual boys with the toxic testosterone will enlist and do all the fighting and dying. The rest can party like the elite in Hunger Games with gay regalia and pretty hairdos.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Like a full on balls-deep European conflict? Hell no.
Not sure who's fault it is but Ukraine is screwed because they are not part of NATO.
The USA is already a joke when it comes to its foreign policy and to keep any semblance of dignity it is critical not to make threats that are not followed through. As such I hope Biden doesn't make any he's not willing to commit to. I have no problem with economic ones and we should make Russia feel pain for invading ukraine, but a shooting war over Ukraine hell no. If it was a NATO nation I would have a different opinion, but russia still respects nato and would be exceedingly unlikely to invade a nato country. With rare exception I don't think any country should go to war except for a "dear friend". That would be the UK. It's just not ukraine.
As tirwin alluded to a lot of this is russia is still very butthurt over the breakup of the soviet union. I cannot see any aspirations of putin to creep his way west until he is in paris.
ManualF150
.308 Win
I will summarize what I want to say in a few short sentences...
Our leaders over the past decade or two (somewhere around there) helped us achieve where we are today. We depend too much on China and other foreign countries and it's put us in a very tight position especially for manufacturing our own goods internally. Not to say it's not irrecoverable, but it's not like switch you flip on and everything is hunky dorie. It takes decades to rebuild brick and mortar factories and mine raw materials. The problem is, we as a country have also turned a majority of folks into lazy, greedy, irresponsible people that want to be Americans, but don't do anything for their country. Now I don't mean be in the service, but I mean at least make a difference, not live on welfare, decline on government benefits, etc -- also meaning get a damn job! I see this in other areas, people owning homes, cars, etc -- they don't take care of them or want to learn how to take care of their home or car. They'd rather pay someone else to do it for them. Folks just don't want to learn trades or life skills as much as they used to. With all that being said, it stemmed from the top -- we are where we at, because of the leaders we have in office.
I could keep going, but I think I put my point across...
Our leaders over the past decade or two (somewhere around there) helped us achieve where we are today. We depend too much on China and other foreign countries and it's put us in a very tight position especially for manufacturing our own goods internally. Not to say it's not irrecoverable, but it's not like switch you flip on and everything is hunky dorie. It takes decades to rebuild brick and mortar factories and mine raw materials. The problem is, we as a country have also turned a majority of folks into lazy, greedy, irresponsible people that want to be Americans, but don't do anything for their country. Now I don't mean be in the service, but I mean at least make a difference, not live on welfare, decline on government benefits, etc -- also meaning get a damn job! I see this in other areas, people owning homes, cars, etc -- they don't take care of them or want to learn how to take care of their home or car. They'd rather pay someone else to do it for them. Folks just don't want to learn trades or life skills as much as they used to. With all that being said, it stemmed from the top -- we are where we at, because of the leaders we have in office.
I could keep going, but I think I put my point across...
China is definitely a threat. However they have some very big problems of their own. Just like Russia their demographics are getting worse. They are the fastest aging country on the planet. They will be facing a huge decline in the number of military age males (and females) over the next10-15 years.
Yes we buy alot from China but not nearly as much as you think. Only 10% of our GDP is associated with foreign trade and alot of that is with Canada and Mexico.
China's economy however is significantly more exposed to foreign trade. Their business model is to import raw materials and export finished goods. If the raw materials don't come in or customers stop buying they are in serious trouble. To top it all off their debt problem is much worse than ours. We are amateurs compared to them.
Just like Russia if they are going to make any moves they HAVE to do it within the next decade or it's possible they won't be able to.
In any actual shooting war we could cripple their economy easily with our navy by sinking every ship going to or from China. Their navy simply doesn't have much capability to project power beyond 1,000 miles from their bases. They couldn't possibly convoy their ships. They are well aware of this which is why their development of nuclear missiles that orbit the earth is so troubling. Essentially it's blackmail - if we move against their ships they will nuke a city. Then again with Biden and half of DC in their pocket they probably won't have to threaten us.
Russia was our ally in two world wars and as such we defacto recognized each others territorial borders. Ukraine was inside those borders for 340 years. It separated due to influences from outside, not through the popular desire of its people. Reunification has already started with refferendum in Crimea and it will continue. They are a family and we are opportunistic outsiders.
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BerettaGuy
.308 Win
While I know what you are saying, I hope to hell that this group is a minority in the heartland though they are being celebrated by the gaslighting media on the West Coast and NY City area. You have to realize that 18 year old voters today were 5 when Obama was elected and have been indoctrinated ever since. KIds entering Highschool back then are in their 30's and are marching for BLM and ANTIFA. They are now the smartest kids in the history of the world. One day they will get a wake-up call. I know there are hard-working patriotic youngins out there, it is just not hip to be that way these days. Everybody is not like the types you see in commercials. Thank God.
Catskillkid
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I've read the same things and agree. My biggest concern right now is the fact that we have no real manufacturing base in this country anymore and rely so much on China (and Southeast Asia more and more). Look at what's going on with the chip shortage and the concerns around Taiwan. That the the orbital nukes are scary too. I suppose it's no different than them having a submarine off the coast but like you said it's good blackmail.
I keep thinking about WWII and Hitler executing Operation: Barbarossa when he did because he knew it was now or never. Are China and Russia thinking the same thing?
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
I think he meant scale wise in a military sense.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
The USSR absolutely had designs on world conquest.
Their entire philosophy was that communism would replace everything else everywhere.
Yes, but the current Russian state does not. At least not that I have read.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
If Russia did invade, and I dont think they will, It would resemble desert storm . Several thousand cruise missiles strikes at every strategic target across the country at one time. The Russians would roll over them before they knew what happened.
Worldwide uprising by workers and peasants was far fetched theory promoted by revolutionaries. It was quickly abandoned by the Soviets as foolish and unrealistic, unlike fanatical anti-communist hysteria in this country that persists to this day.
Soviets were willing to accept the world with two systems, U.S. does not.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
If the Ukrainian people chose to join Russia by referendum nobody would have a problem. That would be like Texas joining the US.
If Russia chooses to force the issue militarily that the world would get nervous. That area has a history of letting conflict spill out into everywhere.
This is really looking very much like the run up to the last 2 world wars.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
The problem isnt that Russia wants to annex Ukraine, The problem is weapons on Russian doorstep which they have asked nicely to remove.
Like Putin said, ""if you dont remove the weapons, We will.""
Like Putin said, ""if you dont remove the weapons, We will.""
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Heres an interesting angle to understand whats happening in Europe.
www.cnbc.com
Nord Stream 2 explained: What it is and why it's proving controversial
With construction underway and as Germany attempts to downplay criticism of the project, concerns over security and geopolitics remain.
www.cnbc.com
spat
.700 Nitro Express
US recognized that capitalism is the only system that actually works.
You can cripple it with a hint of communism and call it socialism and it will limp along, but add too much and it collapses.
States that collapse tend to cause major problems for their neighbors.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
No, that's true.
I think Putin would be content with his little corner of the world if he could ensure nobody interfered.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Russia is dealing with consequences of disastrous break up of 1991. The West used it to take geopolitical and strategic advantage, which is still ongoing process. If Russia doesn't reverse this geopolitical expansion, it will eventually cease to exist.
Reunification is not annexation. West Germany didn't annex East Germany, it reunified.
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spat
.700 Nitro Express
West Germany didn't roll tanks into East Germany either.
The difference between unification and conquest is like the difference between sex and rape.
It's about consent.
BerettaGuy
.308 Win
Past wars have been about oil and resources. Ukraine is about oil too. Pipelines and seaports. After all the money to bribe politicians and their horny sons has to come from somewhere.Heres an interesting angle to understand whats happening in Europe.
Nord Stream 2 explained: What it is and why it's proving controversial
With construction underway and as Germany attempts to downplay criticism of the project, concerns over security and geopolitics remain.
BerettaGuy
.308 Win
I have read that China can't or won't attack Tiwain during the winter due to the conditions Sea.
Russia has to wait for the ground to freeze to get its tanks into Ukraine.
ps. Isreal just initiated a Nationwide Alert and mobilization of all civilians and military. (But don't worry, it is just an exercise)
Funny, Talk about parallels to WWII. Sadam Husein's father worked with the Nazis during WWII. Now Iran is aligned with Russia.
Both are fighting together in Syria. But don't worry children just keep tearing down statues of Democrats from the Civil war.
Russia has to wait for the ground to freeze to get its tanks into Ukraine.
ps. Isreal just initiated a Nationwide Alert and mobilization of all civilians and military. (But don't worry, it is just an exercise)
Funny, Talk about parallels to WWII. Sadam Husein's father worked with the Nazis during WWII. Now Iran is aligned with Russia.
Both are fighting together in Syria. But don't worry children just keep tearing down statues of Democrats from the Civil war.
This was because Soviets let go of East Germany, politically and militarily.
Pull out all of the Western Anti-Russian apparatus from Ukraine and you will see the same thing.
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Referendum already happened in Crimea and the West doesn't accept it. It's not about the will of the people, it's geopolitics.
I can give you a number of examples of how the West propped up and used Ukrainian nationalists to further its geopolitical goals and land grabs. I can't find a single example of a conflict between the Russians and Ukrainians spilling anywhere.
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US is pursuing a policy of world domination. Call it Globalism or New World Order, it's Imperialism on steroids. Anti-Communist hysteria was just one phase. We keep finding new demons to liberate the world from.
Look at the mentality of some in this thread and on FOXNEWS. Biden allows Putin to get away with blah, blah, blah.
We are conducting military exercises on historic Russian territory and at the current Russian border, I guess Putin should retreat his troops to Siberia to please the arogant fucking idiots in this country.
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So, some are seeing this Russia thing either through one view or the exact opposite view.
Me, I do not care for a moment if Russia invades and annexes the land of Ukraine. If the Ukrainians can hold the Russians back, good for them; if not... Oh well. Not really an issue for me.
This same thought goes for China and the Taiwanese. If they can fight back hard enough, good for them, if not.... Oh well.
Peoples of the World have always fought for land and power,, they always will. There is not stopping it.
I think more Americans should be concerned about the current happenings in the US and less concerned about these two other nations.
Just my opinion.
Me, I do not care for a moment if Russia invades and annexes the land of Ukraine. If the Ukrainians can hold the Russians back, good for them; if not... Oh well. Not really an issue for me.
This same thought goes for China and the Taiwanese. If they can fight back hard enough, good for them, if not.... Oh well.
Peoples of the World have always fought for land and power,, they always will. There is not stopping it.
I think more Americans should be concerned about the current happenings in the US and less concerned about these two other nations.
Just my opinion.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
I think you underestimate the long term consequences of Ukraine or Taiwan being conquered.
You are correct about conquest being older than history, and that it is almost inevitable.
What you're wrong about is thinking that this is just about who gets to run a couple of minor countries.
In the past conquest had regional reach only. Most of the world wouldn't have even known about it.
But for the last 2 centuries or so it has had a global reach. In today's hyper connected world either would have an immediate and disasterous effect, followed by a much larger issue.
These things have a habit of turning into world wars.
Do you think we fought the 1st gulf war because we give a shit who's in charge of that tiny piece of sand ?
For 215 years U.S. survived with Ukraine being a part of Russia. No one here even gave it another thought. All of a sudden this became a critical issue. Just goes to show how full of shit is our politics and our politicians. It gets old.
Most people don't care if we are right or wrong and support this arrogance. Then flag-drapped coffins start coming home and people start asking questions.
Most people don't care if we are right or wrong and support this arrogance. Then flag-drapped coffins start coming home and people start asking questions.