Safe Act Update, Pistol Permit Recertification Deadline Approaching !
- Thread starter GOYABEAN
- Start date
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
That's not what I'm saying. To me "keep and bear" means keeping and bearing anyway you so choose. The whole concealed thing being frowned upon in society boggles me. Open carry has it's place as does concealed. I am of the opinion that both are forms of carry and carry is carry, they should both be Constitutionally protected. Wasn't there a whole thread argument about this very issue?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I agree with you. Noratoga doesn't. According to him, it wasn't common place to carry concealed back then so it isn't protected. It wasn't common place to shoot at generals either or fight outside of a line so if we form a militia we can't either. Nor can we use bombs against an enemy. That's for cowards since it wasn't common place back then to do that.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Never said common place!! It was commonly accepted by the Colonies to ban CCW (And not necessarily English law) which was not only firearms. The rest of this post of yours is Bizarre!! I can see way so many have you on Ignore!!
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Common this or that. Semantics. It isn't in the Bill of Rights.
I could care less who has me on ignore. It shows their character that they don't like to be proved wrong or can't handle themselves in a discussion. You know, like a liberal. A true man will counter an argument with facts of his own and admit when he's wrong or just agree to disagree.
I've been proven wrong or shown a different angle to consider before by people like Darth, GoPerfect, Spat, Uzi, ect and took it like a man. I didn't go around ignoring them because my ego was hurt like some guys here who like most of my posts until I disagreed with them on topics of open carry tactical disadvantages, magazines being protected, or the trouble the .45 ACP has on barriers.
So anyone can ignore away. You can too if you like. I'll still be able to read your posts and respond to them with facts or opinions for everyone else to see while you are oblivious and tucked away tight in your safe space not knowing that you are being made to look a fool.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Never said I was going to put you on Ignore! I enjoy the Comedy show you put on! How you think you are more of a Constitutional Scholar the Antonin Scalia is Funniest!
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You don't need to be a constitutional scholar to read and interpret one sentence written in English unless you want to inject bias into it.
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nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
So you don't need to research the history of accepted laws from the time the 2a was written?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
No. Do you need to research what religions were practiced back then or what types of soldiers can be quartered in your house? How about internet blogs? Do you need to research if internet blogs were protected as free speech back then?
If by some miracle we amend the Constitution to say that the right to possess and carry arms shall not be regulated by the government will we have to look up the laws previous to that or what was common place to carry previous to that?
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
So Scalia was wrong to research the History at that time! You Cherry pick and leave out the first part of the sentence! Just like a Liberal it doesn't fit your agenda!
So Scalia was wrong to research the History at that time! You Cherry pick and leave out the first part of the sentence! Just like a Liberal it doesn't fit your agenda!
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
How so? I'm not cherry picking anything.A militia was compromised of the people. It was Joe Blow with his personal firearms. He used them for personal defense around the house, on foot, on horseback, and when called up for muster.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yes, that pesky little comma (,) does add degree of separation between the militia and "We the People".
Robin
Robin
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Pesky commas? Those commas are critical to the interpretation and intent of the founding fathers writing the 2A. Not pesky at all IMO.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Yes and the leftists on the court wanted to rule you had to be part of the Militia and not a individuals right! Scalia did a lot of research of history and other Court cases for this opinion! And weather you like it or not that is how cases are decided!
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Pesky for those that would deny us our God given rights! C'mon!
Robin
Robin
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The whole Bill of Rights are individual rights. Each and every one of them are for individuals. That pesky comma just separates the statement of why the Right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Comma or not be Intellectual honest and quote the entire 2A not just the part you like!
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
WTF is wrong with you? I've been talking about both parts. But since you need it spelled out, here we go.
A well regulated Militia ( A militia is compromised of the people. The people are able bodied men not in a standing army), being necessary to the security of a free State (self explanatory), the right of the people to keep and bear Arms (possess and carry arms) , shall not be infringed. (Self Explanatory)
Now the 2A is an individual right just like all the others.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That's actually incorrect. Those 2 dudes got it wrong.
The militia is compromised of the people with their own weapons so in order for the people to keep the security of their state free, their right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed so that they can form up into a militia.
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holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
The Second Amendment was based partially on the right to keep and bear arms in English common law and was influenced by the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Sir William Blackstone described this right as an auxiliary right, supporting the natural rights of self-defense, resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state.
(THIS IS THE SPIRT AND INTENT OF THE LAW) ,self defense against the government , invaders, Indians, pirates, maniac, low life scoundrels , general bad guys , ect
In United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that, "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence" and limited the scope of the Second Amendment's protections to the federal government.
In United States v. Miller(1939), the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment did not protect weapon types not having a "reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia."
In the twenty-first century, the amendment has been subjected to renewed academic inquiryand judicial interest. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court handed down a landmark decision that held the amendment protects an individual right to possess and carry firearms.
In McDonald v. Chicago (2010), the Court clarified its earlier decisions that limited the amendment's impact to a restriction on the federal government, expressly holding that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment incorporates the Second Amendment against state and local governments.
In Caetano v. Massachusetts (2016), the Supreme Court reiterated its earlier rulings that "the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding" and that its protection is not limited to "only those weapons useful in warfare".
Despite these decisions, the debate between various organizations regarding gun control and gun rights continues
(THIS IS THE SPIRT AND INTENT OF THE LAW) ,self defense against the government , invaders, Indians, pirates, maniac, low life scoundrels , general bad guys , ect
In United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that, "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence" and limited the scope of the Second Amendment's protections to the federal government.
In United States v. Miller(1939), the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment did not protect weapon types not having a "reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia."
In the twenty-first century, the amendment has been subjected to renewed academic inquiryand judicial interest. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court handed down a landmark decision that held the amendment protects an individual right to possess and carry firearms.
In McDonald v. Chicago (2010), the Court clarified its earlier decisions that limited the amendment's impact to a restriction on the federal government, expressly holding that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment incorporates the Second Amendment against state and local governments.
In Caetano v. Massachusetts (2016), the Supreme Court reiterated its earlier rulings that "the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding" and that its protection is not limited to "only those weapons useful in warfare".
Despite these decisions, the debate between various organizations regarding gun control and gun rights continues
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There are too many that either do not understand how our courts work or they have not researched the real intent of the Founding Fathers.
Both of these are key to understanding not only the Second Amendment but all of the Constitution.
Many should go back and research some of this and stop adding "Feelings" to the discussion.
Both of these are key to understanding not only the Second Amendment but all of the Constitution.
Many should go back and research some of this and stop adding "Feelings" to the discussion.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
The real argument is that the courts have become corrupted.
Here are some pretty important quotes of the great men who framed the United States....
The federalist Madison’s compromise, was to promise a bill of rights. After weeks of tense debate, his federalists won the vote to ratify the constitution. “He writes an amendment that gives the states the right to have an armed militia, by the people arming themselves.”
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785
"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824
"To disarm the people...s the most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason (One of my favorites!)
- George Mason,
The federalist Madison’s compromise, was to promise a bill of rights. After weeks of tense debate, his federalists won the vote to ratify the constitution. “He writes an amendment that gives the states the right to have an armed militia, by the people arming themselves.”
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785
"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824
"To disarm the people...s the most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason (One of my favorites!)
- George Mason,
Absolutely they have. From the lowest to the highest. Unless there is a major coup, this will not change!
I love Patrick Henry!!
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That's very vague so I'm not getting where you actually stand in regards to militia but if you read the Declaration of Independence, it clearly says that when the standing government gets tyrannical, the people have to have a means to abolish it.
Then shortly after a war was fought by the people in militias against the current standing army. Those people were equipped with the same weaponry as the standing army.
They won and the Bill of Rights was written with the 2A included to preserve the right for the people to do it again.
That includes, full auto, grenades, ect.
I think that's what you mean.