gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Well get out there and make some guys! What are you waiting for?
...
- Thread starter stanj0
- Start date
Exonautic
.308 Win
$$$wdeister08
.40 S&W
Wait. We need a vertical or afg on this thing for it to be an other? Interesting.
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
Ok, so I keep reading this thread and still seem to be a bit confused. At one time I looked at the laws to see what is NY legal as an Other and I thought the only Other legal here was a smooth bore pistol. Is it stated somewhere else what NY considers legal?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
If it isn't a pistol, rifle, or a shotgun it is an other. There is no place that lists others. Others are just others.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
Strange, I could have sworn I seen somewhere in penal code that they allowed an Other but it was confined to smooth bore pistol. I could be mistaken.
As if I don't have enough going on already, sounds like a fun time.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
Other, as in AOW?
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
Exonautic
.308 Win
Sorry bud. Thats why i have no money. I'm waiting for payday to pick up the bcg.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
Change your build plans
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
Ok I think I got it. The ATF doesn't actually list "Other" per say. But because my lower was bought as an "Other" and squeezing between the listed NFA definitions it would be legal.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
Technically it is an “other firearm”
The American Cowboy Chronicles: What is a Firearm? The ATF Definition
Exonautic
.308 Win
all i need is the BCG. got everything else.
Exonautic
.308 Win
as long as it's over 26" and under a 16" barrel.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
uuuummmmmm? no one said there is a maximum barrel length.
the technical "catch" is:
1. not designed to be fired from the shoulder
2. has a forward vertical grip AND
3. an OAL of 26 or more.....
therein lies the classification.
.
Exonautic
.308 Win
Yep my bad. Thought being over 16 inches redefined it but that's not the case after looking over the clear and concise penal code.
Exonautic
.308 Win
think I'm gonna build one of these in 9mm at some point.
1075tech
.338 Win Mag
Sounds like a good reason to get the 12" 6.5 Grendel barrel I've been contemplating. Damn it! There goes my OT check this week!
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
It is measured from all non movable/removable parts. So if the brace can come off then it is to the end of the buffer.....that is why 11.5 inch barrel........cause it measures to the end of the barrel NOT the flash hider.....unless a perm fh......but then it would atill be 11.5 inch barrel.....
As far as the other goes.....IF you really bought a lower that had NEVER been a rifle then you are good.
IF the FFL just fucked up the paperwork....no big deal. It has to be built to be a rifle....NOT just an FFL paperwork botch job.
But as @dsdmmat said above. If you are not 100% sure it was a virgin lower get another one. They are cheap.
Edit to add: if it is an “other” over 26 inches you would not need a fixed mag
This is why GUN LAWS SUCK!!! .... i can buy a pistol upper
cash or check and carry .. i have no lower .. .. my friend has a ar rifle , i go to his house and we go out back and swap uppers and have fun .. pew pew pew pew .. and switch back when done .. 2 pin change over .. omg ... .. no one knows .. and were the good guys .. FUAC .. mean while yesterday morning we have a another church shooting from a asshole who isnt allowed to have a gun no matter how he gets one ...
So...basically add a sig brace to any upper/barrel combo with a vertical grip and you are GTG?
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
Virgin lower. Not a rifle that you took apart.
wdeister08
.40 S&W
This is why legislation based around thought is
Has to have been a virgin lower, and I think legally you want to make sure the FFL form is marked as an other. I'd also like to know the exact snippets of penal code and such to know right away should I need the legal defense.
I think this might be a project for me to work on over the winter. FUAC
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
Mike1Juliet
9mm
I was also wondering this. It has also appeared in many discussions elsewhere and from the way the law in NYS is written it appears to be a legal technicality rather than a gray area. The reason it'd be a technicality is because we're playing in finite fields of the law specifically with the ATF's interpretations and NYS's law definitions. In NYS Penal Code you'll also notice that there is absolutely no definition for a pistol which pretty much makes me think that NYS goes by the NFA definition of a pistol. Also the definition of a "firearm" I'm going to call separately "NYS firearm" and "NFA firearm" to avoid confusion. People will be incentivized to try and think these are synonymous but they aren't. They're merely homonyms, a NYS firearm is defined as:
""Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d) any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e) an assault weapon."
Make sure to also read about what constitutes an "assault weapon" as defined here:
"Assault weapon" means (a) a semiautomatic rifle... (b) a semi-automatic shotgun... (c) a semi-automatic pistol (d) revolving cylinder shotgun [with associated "assault weapon" features like a pistol grip, extending/telescoping stock, etc]
This is where the technicality lies, when making one of these AR-"NFA firearms" what you're making doesn't fit the NYS nor the NFA definition of a Rifle or Pistol and hence this cannot be a NYS Firearm as defined under NYS Penal Code 265. However the problem is that if a cop pulls you over and manages to search your car and sees this, he's most certainly going to arrest you for having an "assault weapon" even though by all definitions this is not. You'll have to get a good lawyer who understands this legislation because I doubt the DA will want to see the difference and I can only assume a NYS DA would take this one of two ways. 1. to preserve ambiguity of the law and not set a precedence fearing losing, the DA won't prosecute or 2. The DA will attempt to prosecute to try and nail another simple and easy assault weapon charge and you face 15+ years in prison.
What I think anyone whose thinking about this should do is write a letter to the state police asking for clarification using the Mossberg Shockwave as an example under the SAME logic described here and described by the Police. IMO if the police can sign off on this legality then by all means you'll be golden and have a pretty solid argument on how this is legal and you can rest safe not fearing persecution. That there lies the ultimate barrier, instead of living in fear of being prosecuted for something technically legal you should pursue getting the police and by default the NYS government to admit this hole in their law and I think you'll feel a lot better using one of these things. That being said if you want to start doing this, Dark Storm Industries is the one who wrote the letter to the Suffolk State Police you might be able to catalyze DSI into doing something like this again, maybe the police would be more inclined to answer another request from a pretty big gun manufacturer there. From here I actually don't know how you would go about obtaining the necessary parts in the correct fashion or order to make an NFA firearm that is not a rifle or pistol by definition. I know you need to transfer a lower of some sort under "other" to yourself then start building from there. I'm not sure if its legal to build it yourself or does a FFL07 have to make it for you or something.
This, you have to seriously know the law in and out before you attempt to build something like this or commission someone else to build it for you. One missed step and you could be committing multiple felonies on the state and federal level and the state police would probably be the least of your worries.
""Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d) any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e) an assault weapon."
Make sure to also read about what constitutes an "assault weapon" as defined here:
"Assault weapon" means (a) a semiautomatic rifle... (b) a semi-automatic shotgun... (c) a semi-automatic pistol (d) revolving cylinder shotgun [with associated "assault weapon" features like a pistol grip, extending/telescoping stock, etc]
This is where the technicality lies, when making one of these AR-"NFA firearms" what you're making doesn't fit the NYS nor the NFA definition of a Rifle or Pistol and hence this cannot be a NYS Firearm as defined under NYS Penal Code 265. However the problem is that if a cop pulls you over and manages to search your car and sees this, he's most certainly going to arrest you for having an "assault weapon" even though by all definitions this is not. You'll have to get a good lawyer who understands this legislation because I doubt the DA will want to see the difference and I can only assume a NYS DA would take this one of two ways. 1. to preserve ambiguity of the law and not set a precedence fearing losing, the DA won't prosecute or 2. The DA will attempt to prosecute to try and nail another simple and easy assault weapon charge and you face 15+ years in prison.
What I think anyone whose thinking about this should do is write a letter to the state police asking for clarification using the Mossberg Shockwave as an example under the SAME logic described here and described by the Police. IMO if the police can sign off on this legality then by all means you'll be golden and have a pretty solid argument on how this is legal and you can rest safe not fearing persecution. That there lies the ultimate barrier, instead of living in fear of being prosecuted for something technically legal you should pursue getting the police and by default the NYS government to admit this hole in their law and I think you'll feel a lot better using one of these things. That being said if you want to start doing this, Dark Storm Industries is the one who wrote the letter to the Suffolk State Police you might be able to catalyze DSI into doing something like this again, maybe the police would be more inclined to answer another request from a pretty big gun manufacturer there. From here I actually don't know how you would go about obtaining the necessary parts in the correct fashion or order to make an NFA firearm that is not a rifle or pistol by definition. I know you need to transfer a lower of some sort under "other" to yourself then start building from there. I'm not sure if its legal to build it yourself or does a FFL07 have to make it for you or something.
Bullet Guy said:
This, you have to seriously know the law in and out before you attempt to build something like this or commission someone else to build it for you. One missed step and you could be committing multiple felonies on the state and federal level and the state police would probably be the least of your worries.
freddy
.308 Win
100%