Violence prevention done right

[eris]

OK, dammit, I'm done. If you cannot even read the article, or did, and still try to misrepresent the arguments presented therein, fine. I will never convince you that a heartfelt moral obligation in accordance with the First Amendment has any standing in the face of "public pressure" You win. Satisfied? Just remember your stance when the Second Amendment is nullified by "public pressure".

I won? No. I presented my opinions. You presented your opinions. A brief conversation on the Internet like this isn't going to change either of us, but it hopefully helps us to understand each other a little more.

I have read the article, and apart from the conclusions at the end about this being a dramatic infringement of religious liberty, I found the article informative and fair in presenting the two sides of the case. It simply doesn't sway my opinion. (By the way, the Supreme Court punted on this one and sent the cases back to the lower courts. Does anyone know the current status?)

You see this as a case of government infringing on religious liberty. I see it as a case of government bending over backwards to acommodate religious liberty. I'm afraid we are unlikely to ever come to agreement on this issue.

 

[96coal449]

What was this thread about again? ......

Never mind .......

 

[eris]

What was this thread about again? ......

Never mind .......

Yeah it kind of got derailed. The point was supposed to be to talk about ways of addressing violence without jumping on the ineffective gun control bandwagon. That intervention program is the kind of thing that I myself most favor, and I was hoping that others would talk about what they think the best way to address violence is.

 

[96coal449]

Yeah it kind of got derailed. The point was supposed to be to talk about ways of addressing violence without jumping on the ineffective gun control bandwagon. That intervention program is the kind of thing that I myself most favor, and I was hoping that others would talk about what they think the best way to address violence is.

Like said before .... it should be addressed before the violence even begins. It should be bred into us at an early age.
Right from wrong.
Morals ..... enough said.

 

[holdover]

The "progressive agenda" is about ending bigotry, oppression of minorities, and the accumulation of power by the super rich, so I sure hope you aren't saying those things are "stabilizing societal influences".

They have set themselves up for failure. The goals can never be accomplished. Its like saying we're going to stop evil.

 

[Criticalt]

Well, countries with extreme punishment for crimes, have almost no crime.
If acriminal wants help, im all for helping them.
However, forcing help on the millions of lifetime criminals who have zero inclination to change......lock them up.
I absolutely guarantee if the punishment fit the crime, crime would drop.
Carrying a gun "illegally".......5 years mandatory jail.
Pulling a gun on someone(armed robbery).......10 years mandatory in jail.
Pull the trigger........mandatory life.
Id rather pay taxes for more prisons.
Ive seen too many "rehabilitated" individuals end peoples lives.
Make a mistake once or twice, I agree with helping them if they want.
Being a career criminal, no more chances.

Also, as far as charities....
Conservatives give more to support families, poor, starving children and communities and are more likely to give to rebuild a destroyed family home.
Liberals give more to support equality, discrimination, and are more likely to give to build a homes so everyone can have a home.
Also, middle class conservatives give more than middle class liberals to charity.
Whereas, wealthy liberals give more than wealthy conservatives.
Again, conservatives give more to help the needy and liberals give to more to make everyone equal.

 

[eris]

Well, countries with extreme punishment for crimes, have almost no crime.
If acriminal wants help, im all for helping them.
However, forcing help on the millions of lifetime criminals who have zero inclination to change......lock them up.
I absolutely guarantee if the punishment fit the crime, crime would drop.
Carrying a gun "illegally".......5 years mandatory jail.
Pulling a gun on someone(armed robbery).......10 years mandatory in jail.
Pull the trigger........mandatory life.
Id rather pay taxes for more prisons.
Ive seen too many "rehabilitated" individuals end peoples lives.
Make a mistake once or twice, I agree with helping them if they want.
Being a career criminal, no more chances.

I'd say that "rehabilitation" doesn't even get tried in the US. Our system is about punishment only, and we already have extremely long sentences for crime as it is. We also incarcerate more people than any other country in the world. It's a system that doesn't seem to work.

Also, as far as charities....
Conservatives give more to support families, poor, starving children and communities and are more likely to give to rebuild a destroyed family home.
Liberals give more to support equality, discrimination, and are more likely to give to build a homes so everyone can have a home.
Also, middle class conservatives give more than middle class liberals to charity.
Whereas, wealthy liberals give more than wealthy conservatives.
Again, conservatives give more to help the needy and liberals give to more to make everyone equal.

That sounds about right to me. I give money to the ACLU, SAF, Sierra Club, and Nature Conservancy, myself, so I fit this pattern.

 

[Criticalt]

And then, on the subject of talking to liberals about ways to stop gun violence.......are you serious?

How can we have an honest talk with people who believe an AR-15 fires 2,000 rounds a minute and can take down airliners.
People who believe millions of people die from gun violence in the USA every year.
People who believe the NRA actively kill children.
People who believe their feelings are more important than facts.
People who believe calling the cops will save your life in a home invasion.
People who believe an AR-15 is a military weapon of war.
People who refuse to acknowledge the difference between an automatic wrapon and a semi auto.
People who call an AR-15 a machine gun.

In my world I believe that if you are passionate about making a change, you learn everything you can about the subject before walking the streets chanting.
I know plenty of liberals who want zero talking, just immediate action. Which consists of removing a constitutional right even before learning a single fact.

No, talking wont solve this issue.
The realization that the 2nd amendment isnt going anywhere is what the anti gunners need to understand.
Skewed facts, marches, chants and feelings will not change the BORs.

I realize you believe you are a different kind of liberal, but, most liberals are firmly and ignorantly steadfast in their anti gun stance.

 

[eris]

And then, on the subject of talking to liberals about ways to stop gun violence.......are you serious?

How can we have an honest talk with people who believe an AR-15 fires 2,000 rounds a minute and can take down airliners.
People who believe millions of people die from gun violence in the USA every year.
People who believe the NRA actively kill children.
People who believe their feelings are more important than facts.
People who believe calling the cops will save your life in a home invasion.
People who believe an AR-15 is a military weapon of war.
People who refuse to acknowledge the difference between an automatic wrapon and a semi auto.
People who call an AR-15 a machine gun.

In my world I believe that if you are passionate about making a change, you learn everything you can about the subject before walking the streets chanting.
I know plenty of liberals who want zero talking, just immediate action. Which consists of removing a constitutional right even before learning a single fact.

No, talking wont solve this issue.
The realization that the 2nd amendment isnt going anywhere is what the anti gunners need to understand.
Skewed facts, marches, chants and feelings will not change the BORs.

I realize you believe you are a different kind of liberal, but, most liberals are firmly and ignorantly steadfast in their anti gun stance.

You're absolutely right about most liberals. They are ignorant about guns and they seem to wear that ignorance as a badge of pride, but it is possible to educate them and get them to adjust their opinions, at least, even if they don't do a full reversal. I remember several years ago I was on the forums for a webcomic, and the creator was active on the forums, too. One day we got to talking about guns for some reason and she expressed all the usual anti-gun tropes, including the idea that "you have a duty to retreat from a home invasion because it's the job of the police to protect you". She was stunned when I and another person (also a gun owner) pointed out Warren v. District of Columbia where the Supreme Court ruled that the police have no special duty to protect people. The courts have repeatedly upheld this decision, most recently in the Castle Rock decision. The person I was talking to was completely taken aback by this bit of info, because she'd never heard about it, but in the end it was enough to convince her that she was wrong in some way. It didn't convince her to stop hating guns, or stop advocating for gun control, but it did knock a few bricks out of the wall of ignorance and she conceded that people may indeed have a right to defend themselves. This was tiny progress, but really that's the most you can ever hope for in one conversation.

That's basically how I approach all gun prohibitionists. I try to show them, even if in a tiny way, that something they believe about guns is wrong, and if I can do that it nudges them slightly towards changing their minds. Enough nudges and it begins to make a real difference.

That's another reason why I support programs like Dr. Richardson's violence intervention program. It shows that there are ways to "do something" that have a measurable effect and reduce violence, but aren't gun control. A lot of the anti-gun crowd seem to be for gun control simply because they desperately want to "do something" and gun control is the only thing they know to talk about (it's certainly the only thing that the media talks about). By presenting them with alternatives that I can show are both effective in preventing violence and respectful of gun rights, I am trying to divert the do something crowd and get them onto "do something actually useful" instead.

 

[Criticalt]

I'd say that "rehabilitation" doesn't even get tried in the US. Our system is about punishment only, and we already have extremely long sentences for crime as it is. We also incarcerate more people than any other country in the world. It's a system that doesn't seem to work.



That sounds about right to me. I give money to the ACLU, SAF, Sierra Club, and Nature Conservancy, myself, so I fit this pattern.

We arent talking about small time criminals.
I believe about 50% of the prison population in this country should be let out.
First time drug crimes, petty crimes......
Once these criminals become chronic, after being arrested multiple times, its time to remove them from society.
Almost ALL prisons have rehabilitation programs...ie....drugs, violence, mental health.....the problem is, only 7% of inmates even agree to the programs to reduce sentences. And only 2% of those succeed and "graduate" the programs. Doing these programs is seen as being weak and open an inmate to abuse from other inmates.
Forcing them into these programs has even lower compliance.

Heres a little anecdote that happens all the time.
A couple years ago a 21 year old guy was arrested for carrying a gun illegally in South Buffalo.
A judge let him out after 2 weeks in jail.
A week later he shot and killed his ex girlfriend and her new boyfriend who were sitting in a car eating ice cream.
This 21 year old guy had been arrested 6 times in 2 years for different crimes.
If he wpuld have been in jail for the 5 year minimum mandatory, 2 people wouldbe alive.
So, we need to revamp our prison system by letting out the first time weed sellers and identity theives but locking up the 6 time loser caught illegally carrying a gun.

The first thing is to admit that a very large number of chronic criminals CANNOT be rehabilitated and must stay out of the public.
The biggest problem we have in this country is being seen as "cool".
Gangbangers, carrying a gun, beating people up, gay bashing, stealing cars......is all seen as cool by alot of young men and girls.
Most people stealing cars didnt need a ride.
Gangbangers arent carrying a gun to protect themselves from bad guys......they are the bad guys.
Most young guys in the inner city arent beating people up because the wete dishonored.....
They do these things because these things are "cool" and make them look cool to other thugs.
So, until we figure out a way to make these things not appear cool, they will go on.
Hell, even doing time is cool!!!
Being rehabilitated is not cool.

 

[Criticalt]

You're absolutely right about most liberals. They are ignorant about guns and they seem to wear that ignorance as a badge of pride, but it is possible to educate them and get them to adjust their opinions, at least, even if they don't do a full reversal. I remember several years ago I was on the forums for a webcomic, and the creator was active on the forums, too. One day we got to talking about guns for some reason and she expressed all the usual anti-gun tropes, including the idea that "you have a duty to retreat from a home invasion because it's the job of the police to protect you". She was stunned when I and another person (also a gun owner) pointed out Warren v. District of Columbia where the Supreme Court ruled that the police have no special duty to protect people. The courts have repeatedly upheld this decision, most recently in the Castle Rock decision. The person I was talking to was completely taken aback by this bit of info, because she'd never heard about it, but in the end it was enough to convince her that she was wrong in some way. It didn't convince her to stop hating guns, or stop advocating for gun control, but it did knock a few bricks out of the wall of ignorance and she conceded that people may indeed have a right to defend themselves. This was tiny progress, but really that's the most you can ever hope for in one conversation.

That's basically how I approach all gun prohibitionists. I try to show them, even if in a tiny way, that something they believe about guns is wrong, and if I can do that it nudges them slightly towards changing their minds. Enough nudges and it begins to make a real difference.

That's another reason why I support programs like Dr. Richardson's violence intervention program. It shows that there are ways to "do something" that have a measurable effect and reduce violence, but aren't gun control. A lot of the anti-gun crowd seem to be for gun control simply because they desperately want to "do something" and gun control is the only thing they know to talk about (it's certainly the only thing that the media talks about). By presenting them with alternatives that I can show are both effective in preventing violence and respectful of gun rights, I am trying to divert the do something crowd and get them onto "do something actually useful" instead.

Another big issue is the lying politicians.
Of course all politiciams lie but for this thread, im talking about gun control liberals.
For instance, take our Chuck Shumer.
I know he is a very intelligent man.
How many times do you think he has been told that an AR-15 IS NOT a gun used by the military? 100 times, 1000 times, 10,000 times.....
Well, in a speech tomorrow he would say, AR-15s are military weapons.
Shumer, Cuomo, Obama......they know that AR-15s arent full auto, but, they still say they are full auto every chance they get.
This goes on and on with every single anti gun talking point.
These people know the facts as well as we do. They are told by millions of gun owners time and time again.
However, they continue to lie.
I will not debate or talk to someone who bold face lies.
Ignorance is one thing, but there is no excuse for lying.
If they wanted an honest conversation, they would not start with a lie.

 

[Criticalt]

oh, and the "something needs to be done", always ends with gun confiscation.

 

[eris]

We arent talking about small time criminals.
I believe about 50% of the prison population in this country should be let out.
First time drug crimes, petty crimes......
Once these criminals become chronic, after being arrested multiple times, its time to remove them from society.
Almost ALL prisons have rehabilitation programs...ie....drugs, violence, mental health.....the problem is, only 7% of inmates even agree to the programs to reduce sentences. And only 2% of those succeed and "graduate" the programs. Doing these programs is seen as being weak and open an inmate to abuse from other inmates.
Forcing them into these programs has even lower compliance.

Heres a little anecdote that happens all the time.
A couple years ago a 21 year old guy was arrested for carrying a gun illegally in South Buffalo.
A judge let him out after 2 weeks in jail.
A week later he shot and killed his ex girlfriend and her new boyfriend who were sitting in a car eating ice cream.
This 21 year old guy had been arrested 6 times in 2 years for different crimes.
If he wpuld have been in jail for the 5 year minimum mandatory, 2 people wouldbe alive.
So, we need to revamp our prison system by letting out the first time weed sellers and identity theives but locking up the 6 time loser caught illegally carrying a gun.

Interesting points to ponder.

The first thing is to admit that a very large number of chronic criminals CANNOT be rehabilitated and must stay out of the public.
The biggest problem we have in this country is being seen as "cool".
Gangbangers, carrying a gun, beating people up, gay bashing, stealing cars......is all seen as cool by alot of young men and girls.
Most people stealing cars didnt need a ride.
Gangbangers arent carrying a gun to protect themselves from bad guys......they are the bad guys.
Most young guys in the inner city arent beating people up because the wete dishonored.....
They do these things because these things are "cool" and make them look cool to other thugs.
So, until we figure out a way to make these things not appear cool, they will go on.
Hell, even doing time is cool!!!
Being rehabilitated is not cool.

Can I get an Amen brothers and sisters? Amen!

I'm not one who blames video games for violence, but I strongly believe that American culture in general tends to glamorize violence and we desperately need to change that. Movies, TV shows, video games, rappers and singers all need to change the way they depict violence as "cool" as you say Kids pay attention to these things and right now they are getting the message that violence is something that solves problems and makes them "strong".

 

[Criticalt]

I'd say that "rehabilitation" doesn't even get tried in the US. Our system is about punishment only, and we already have extremely long sentences for crime as it is. We also incarcerate more people than any other country in the world. It's a system that doesn't seem to work.



That sounds about right to me. I give money to the ACLU, SAF, Sierra Club, and Nature Conservancy, myself, so I fit this pattern.

My life is a charity!!
I "take home" about half of what others in my profession take home.
Between "free" rabis vacs and low cost or "free" spay and neutering, annnnnnnd strays and "found" animals, im going broke!!

 

[Marine Cpl]

What was this thread about again? ......

Never mind .......

I don't know but Criticalt is now saying illegal guns as if it really is a thing that the founders intended.

 

[holdover]

A couple years ago a 21 year old guy was arrested for carrying a gun illegally in South Buffalo.
A judge let him out after 2 weeks in jail.
A week later he shot and killed his ex girlfriend and her new boyfriend who were sitting in a car eating ice cream.
This 21 year old guy had been arrested 6 times in 2 years for different crimes.
If he wpuld have been in jail for the 5 year minimum mandatory, 2 people wouldbe alive.
So, we need to revamp our prison system by letting out the first time weed sellers and identity theives but locking up the 6 time loser caught illegally carrying a gun.

.

Illegally? What happened to inalienable rights? Infringement on the 2nd A? Some court re-wrote the law to require us to ask for permission . To have our weapons registered with the state so they can revoke our privileges if they want to . What's illegal here is the state law, and the courts who uphold it.

 

[holdover]

Interesting points to ponder.



Can I get an Amen brothers and sisters? Amen!

I'm not one who blames video games for violence, but I strongly believe that American culture in general tends to glamorize violence and we desperately need to change that. Movies, TV shows, video games, rappers and singers all need to change the way they depict violence as "cool" as you say Kids pay attention to these things and right now they are getting the message that violence is something that solves problems and makes them "strong".

When I was a kid I played cops and robbers ,cowboys and Indians ,Soldier. If anything the American culture is effeminizing kids. The disappearance of moral values of right and wrong , of understanding pain of another person is bigger issue in development of young people.

 

[eris]

When I was a kid I played cops and robbers ,cowboys and Indians ,Soldier. If anything the American culture is effeminizing kids. The disappearance of moral values of right and wrong , of understanding pain of another person is bigger issue in development of young people.

I played those games too. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the glorification of criminal violence and "good guys" who go outside the law to get things done.

I agree with you about understanding the pain of others, but I don't know what to say about the issue of morality. There's lots of people who tell me I'm immoral for being a lesbian, and I think they are immoral for condemning homosexuality, but neither of those views have any bearing on violence as far as I'm aware. I would say that the "glorification of violence" that I talk about is certainly an issue of morality, though. Violence can be morally justified, but only in defense or as societally approved punishment for crimes (cops are morally justified in using violence against dangerous criminals, for example). We definitely need to teach this aspect of morality again, because right now too many people seem to think violence is justified by small things like being insulted, getting cut off in traffic, or other petty things.

 

[holdover]

Morality being defined as good ethics you would want your kids to have . We all have a different set of standards. But we have a standard you are expected to live up to. lack of ethics and morality , indifference to others is going to have social implications somewhere down the line.

Those games were all filled with violence and rough housing Shooting and killing the bad guy was just our version of shooting and killing the bad guy , (and it was much healthier too) Today is just got digitized , (and adults are allowed to play) . The point I was making is that mock violence is an almost natural thing puppies do it, cats do it, people do it. Natural Training for the real world . I don't think that video games have a huge effect , They do have a an effect , but I feel its marginal .

 

[eris]

Morality being defined as good ethics you would want your kids to have . We all have a different set of standards. But we have a standard you are expected to live up to. lack of ethics and morality , indifference to others is going to have social implications somewhere down the line.

Those games were all filled with violence and rough housing Shooting and killing the bad guy was just our version of shooting and killing the bad guy , (and it was much healthier too) Today is just got digitized , (and adults are allowed to play) . The point I was making is that mock violence is an almost natural thing puppies do it, cats do it, people do it. Natural Training for the real world . I don't think that video games have a huge effect , They do have a an effect , but I feel its marginal .

I can agree with all that. I'm not saying that video games cause violence. They don't. But they can, and often do, depict violence being used in immoral ways. For example, GTA V. It's an interesting game, very well made and polished. But nonetheless, it's about being a criminal. Players are rewarded for being violent against innocent people, and I think that's something that shouldn't be done because it promotes immorality in the sense you seem to mean. Other games and movies do something a little better, but not much, by giving the player only one option - violence - to defeat the bad guys. It's a rare game that gives people non-violent options, but they do exist. Games from Bethesda tend to have options like this because you can often complete quests by stealth or by dialog options.

 

[FrankenCub]

It doesn't help that we have some very noted liberal politicians who make sure cop killers are released back into the public, illegals who have long violent records are released or sheltered by liberal cities, and make claims that groups such as MS13 don't exist in this state etc etc. Our colleges have become indoctrination centers that teach kids this shit is ok.
Facts don't seem to make a difference. I have a cousin like this. The longer he was indoctrinated in the system the worse he got. You can show him documented facts backed by statistics and all the reports you can find and he will argue against it.
Learn to repeat the "facts" they give you.
Honestly, I'd just as soon slit my throat than have a discussion with him any more.

 

[Robin]

First you need a congressional committee with full regulatory and subpoena power to implement a coalition, task force, and or a bi-partisan commission with even more regulation and subpoena powers to investigate the investigation into the implementation of china's super snooper bot on gun owners. A budget of a couple trillion ought to get the pot boiling, No problem, our great grandchildren have deep pockets.
Robin

 

[Criticalt]

Illegally? What happened to inalienable rights? Infringement on the 2nd A? Some court re-wrote the law to require us to ask for permission . To have our weapons registered with the state so they can revoke our privileges if they want to . What's illegal here is the state law, and the courts who uphold it.

Yep....illegally
We dont have to like them but we have laws.
You do realize that just because you dont like a law, the law still exists, right?
Yep, a 6 time felon carrying a gun in NYS without a permit is a crime.
Do we really need to go to this "illegal? What?, ill tell you whats illegal" childish bullshit everytime we talk about a law we dont like.
So, YES, you can be arrested for carrying a gun illegally in NYS.

 

[Darth]

Well, countries with extreme punishment for crimes, have almost no crime.
If acriminal wants help, im all for helping them.
However, forcing help on the millions of lifetime criminals who have zero inclination to change......lock them up.
I absolutely guarantee if the punishment fit the crime, crime would drop.
Carrying a gun "illegally".......5 years mandatory jail.
Pulling a gun on someone(armed robbery).......10 years mandatory in jail.
Pull the trigger........mandatory life.
Id rather pay taxes for more prisons.
Ive seen too many "rehabilitated" individuals end peoples lives.
Make a mistake once or twice, I agree with helping them if they want.
Being a career criminal, no more chances.

Also, as far as charities....
Conservatives give more to support families, poor, starving children and communities and are more likely to give to rebuild a destroyed family home.
Liberals give more to support equality, discrimination, and are more likely to give to build a homes so everyone can have a home.
Also, middle class conservatives give more than middle class liberals to charity.
Whereas, wealthy liberals give more than wealthy conservatives.
Again, conservatives give more to help the needy and liberals give to more to make everyone equal.

What is "carrying a gun illegally?"

Who is the victim?

 

[Darth]

I'm not one who blames video games for violence, but

Oh please no...

Movies, TV shows, video games, rappers and singers all need to change the way they depict violence as "cool"

Nobody needs to change anything in that department.

 

[Criticalt]

What is "carrying a gun illegally?"

Who is the victim?

Ok, last time for you lunk heads so listen up Holdover, Willjr.....
Carrying a gun illegally is a thing.
Even if in your little wourlds its not.
When a 6 time felon is carrying a gun in NYS without a permit, that is carrying a gun illegally.
We dont have to like it but this just is true.
Its tough trying to have conversations with all this trolling.
If you seriously dont know what carrying a gun illegally is, you arent ready for big boy conversations.

 

[Darth]

Ok, last time for you lunk heads so listen up Holdover, Willjr.....
Carrying a gun illegally is a thing.
Even if in your little wourlds its not.
When a 6 time felon is carrying a gun in NYS without a permit, that is carrying a gun illegally.
We dont have to like it but this just is true.
Its tough trying to have conversations with all this trolling.
If you seriously dont know what carrying a gun illegally is, you arent ready for big boy conversations.

You sound upset.

I hope you don't have a gun around. That might be illegally carrying.

But I'm not sure since you didn't answer the question.

 

[Criticalt]

You sound upset.

I hope you don't have a gun around. That might be illegally carrying.

But I'm not sure since you didn't answer the question.

Well, to answer your question, carrying a gun illegally is just that, carrying a gun when you are either prohibited or not permitted.
We are talking about how to lower crimes commited with guns using the laws currently on the books.
Would it begreat to have constitutional carry for all, even felons? Sure, ive said that in dozens of pists on this site.
I live in the deep woods and im very well protected.
But, this thread is about what to do in the real world, using todays laws, to curb crimes commited with guns.
This state and this country are far from allowing EVERYONE to carry agun.
So, any answers would have to follow todays draconian laws.
Its really that simple.
We must deal with the laws we have.

 

[Darth]

Well, to answer your question, carrying a gun illegally is just that, carrying a gun when you are either prohibited or not permitted.
We are talking about how to lower crimes commited with guns using the laws currently on the books.
Would it begreat to have constitutional carry for all, even felons? Sure, ive said that in dozens of pists on this site.
I live in the deep woods and im very well protected.
But, this thread is about what to do in the real world, using todays laws, to curb crimes commited with guns.
This state and this country are far from allowing EVERYONE to carry agun.
So, any answers would have to follow todays draconian laws.
Its really that simple.
We must deal with the laws we have.

So following ludicrous laws that make felons out of everyone will lower the crime rate?

Or are you saying you support the SAFE act? Because that curbs crime in the manner you are describing.

I'm confused.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If someone is too dangerous to be amongst society, he or she should remain locked up in prison or a mental institution since he or she can always get a gun or use a knife or a car as a weapon.